[Lynk Former]

I'm ashamed to say it but I've been watching a fan subbed version of Macross Zero recently. To be honest, I would make the extra effort to buy the Japanese release except for one simple fact. The Japanese release doesn?t have English subtitles... so this is the only way I?ll ever be able to watch Macross Zero. But if anyone doesn't like me watching a fan sub, I'll gladly allow the authorities to slap cuffs on me right away *holds out hands*.

It really is a damn shame to watch an anime like this, at least IMO. Macross Zero is so rich in its animation it deserves to be watched at the highest quality possible both aurally and visually and you just can't do that with a fan sub. It's also a case that I really don't like ripping things off like this. A group of very talented people created this anime and therefore I feel the need to pay for their works.

But there is an obvious solution to this problem one so simple I can't believe I haven't heard anyone else say it before... of course someone probably has but *shrugs*



Subtitles are timed and positioned text that appears as an overlayed layer on top of the video that's being shown when you watch a DVD. At the moment the only way to view subtitles on a DVD is if someone has included the subtitles on the disc to begin with.

But you don't HAVE to do it that way. It's all a matter of programming and the creation of a DVD (or nextgen format) player that allows someone to insert a USB stick or SD card into the DVD player with additional subtitle options for you to choose from.

Here's a scenario: I buy the Japanese release of Macross Zero, I then go onto the net and download a subtitle file from a fan sub group who has created subtitles for that Japanese release of Macross Zero I have just bought. I save the subtitle file on my USB flash stick and plug it into my DVD player and insert the Macross Zero disc. When Macross Zero begins to play, I can have the option of simply activating the English subtitles just buy pressing the subtitle button on my remote.

It's such a good idea, I have bought a legitimate copy of Macross Zero and through the power of community a group of people have allowed me to watch my purchase with English subtitles.

That's the kind of fan subbing I would wholeheartedly support.

[FirestarterCL]

Last I heard, that was a planned feature for Blu-Ray... there would be a portion of the disc that is rewritable and would allow for additional content to be added after you've purchased the disc. But I'm not sure if it end-users could add content or if it would be restricted to the release studio.

You could also do it yourself right now. With a DVD burner and the right software, you could just buy the disc and rip it to your computer, add a subtitle track and re-author the disc and then watch it on your TV. It shouldn't be too hard to find a subtitle track for something like Macross Zero either.

[Lynk Former]

Last I heard, that was a planned feature for Blu-Ray... there would be a portion of the disc that is rewritable and would allow for additional content to be added after you've purchased the disc. But I'm not sure if it end-users could add content or if it would be restricted to the release studio.

Yeah I've heard this too, however I heard that this was proposed with the PS3 in mind rather than movies.

You could also do it yourself right now. With a DVD burner and the right software, you could just buy the disc and rip it to your computer, add a subtitle track and re-author the disc and then watch it on your TV. It shouldn't be too hard to find a subtitle track for something like Macross Zero either.

And that's the problem right there, which normal joe is technically minded enough to do that?

[Analog]

I've seen a fansub of Macross Zero too... and it was not very good. It seems odd that no one has acquired rights to show Zero outside of Japan yet. Anyone heard any stories about why?

[Lynk Former]

You'd think that Bandai-Visual over in the US would get it...

[Rebel]

even your concept is pretty complicated. not so much as making a new DVD mind you, but first, we search through the myriad of sites who sub things. With popular series, there's usually 2-3, soemtimes more if it's Inuyasha.

Then we must make sure the given subtitle files will fit on a USB stick, given you even have one. I'm pretty computerish and I dont own one, I never saw the use. Then your DVD player must be appropriately region equipped. Given it's not a domestic DVD. And your player must have a USB port and the appropriate programming to do this thing. Unless the subtitle files are some kind of executable.

Lastly, you need to make sure the timing is correct. It's great to watch with subs, but if the timing is off by 5-10 seconds, while you may not know japanese, it can look pretty horrible. If the timing is not correct, you'll need to clear your USB stick, and repeat the whole process.

Personally I think thats all rather a waste of time. Most Japanese releases HAVE english subs to my knoweledge. It would be must easier to get a region 2 DVD player off ebay or something. And simply own two copies of the show, OR wait till a domestic release with subs and dubs comes out.

[Lynk Former]

even your concept is pretty complicated. not so much as making a new DVD mind you, but first, we search through the myriad of sites who sub things. With popular series, there's usually 2-3, soemtimes more if it's Inuyasha.

It's not complicated, believe me it's not. And I think you've misunderstood what I was saying too... I'll explain further.

Then we must make sure the given subtitle files will fit on a USB stick, given you even have one. I'm pretty computerish and I dont own one, I never saw the use. Then your DVD player must be appropriately region equipped. Given it's not a domestic DVD. And your player must have a USB port and the appropriate programming to do this thing. Unless the subtitle files are some kind of executable.

Subtitles are as simple as html, they aren't anything complicated, they're just text which are augmented with positional, colour, timing information, etc. All in all the subtitles for an entire movie would be around a few hundred kilobytes of information if we're talking a movie with a lot of dialogue. The DVD player then takes those small pieces of information and acts on them accordingly. Just like how the browser you're using has interpreted the html on this very page.

My idea wasn't meant to be something that you can do with current technology as it is, but rather something that should've been implemented or should be implemented in some form in future technology. To add to that, this idea wasn't limited to just fansubs of anime. It could just as easily be made to add subtitles to a local release. I also had recent technology trends in mind.

In recent trends it's been pushed that we should be having digital media hubs in our homes that can play disc based media, record live tv onto a hard disk and also be able to access the world wide web in some manner. This combining of technologies opens up a wide variety of things, including what has been recommended in this thread.

I never meant for my idea to be final, the way I explained it was just a way I thought would be the most easily understandable approach rather than going into digital media hubs and the likes of that...

Lastly, you need to make sure the timing is correct. It's great to watch with subs, but if the timing is off by 5-10 seconds, while you may not know japanese, it can look pretty horrible. If the timing is not correct, you'll need to clear your USB stick, and repeat the whole process.

You missed my point, you're not the one who's doing the timing, the people who are creating the fansubs are, and they already have to worry about timing and all that in the first place.

Personally I think thats all rather a waste of time. Most Japanese releases HAVE english subs to my knoweledge. It would be must easier to get a region 2 DVD player off ebay or something. And simply own two copies of the show, OR wait till a domestic release with subs and dubs comes out.

It's a waste of time to implement this idea to current technology, yes. But that was not the point at all. And no, most Japanese releases of animes don't have English subtitles. Very few do, the most recent release was the FMA movie. It's a very rare event to see a Japanese release of anything to have english subtitles. Plus the idea of waiting for a domestic release of something that will probably never get a domestic release is what led me to this idea

Plus I will give into one fact that I overlooked. The fact it's illegal to enforce region codes in Australia in New Zealand while it isn't in the rest of the world. I keep forgetting everyone else around the world gets shafted by that XD






What I was trying to illustrate with this idea is that it's possible to easily create a method that allows people to add more subtitles to a digital video. But I guess my example was confusing.

Personally I'd like to be able to see this sort of thing implemented in future technology, obviously there is a better delivery system and it'd have to be embraced by the companies involved who would allow this sort of thing to occur.

The idea was never meant to be a practical excersise, more of a "it would be cool if our digital viewing experience was as flexable as this."

[MadMax]

It is illegal in Australia to have code-protected DVDs? But you have code 4, right?
I mean, it's easy to solve this region code problem nowadays since practically every DVD player has some option to turn this protection off (I turned my player's protection off right after I got it, which was in 2001). A much bigger problem I see with Lynk's (otherwise perfect) idea is that movie or anime studios probably wouldn't want users to overlay their multimillion works with some amateur subtitles that may or may not fit, respectively destroying the original film - at least that's what they would probably think. Anything that's not officially approved by the studio can't be in their works, they would feel that it disrupts their original creation and probably mark it with a similar term as the software industry does with re-engineered copyrighted software (I don't mean mods, but mods also have to follow some guidelines).

Plus, if anyone could subtitle a DVD, who would still wait and pay for a domestic release that perhaps doesn't even have a dub? It drives back Western sales of licensed shows, breaks the schemes of publishers like ADV, and whatnot... at least that's what they'd think.

[Lynk Former]

We have region 4 simply because it's a standard of DVDs that was incorporated into the DVD standard when they were made. In Australia all DVD players come unlocked, or SHOULD be unlocked.

By the way you make it sounds, it's as if we're overlaying subtitles onto film. The idea was to allow flexablity not to disrupt the video permanently. Remember subtitles are overlayed digitally and can be removed at any time simply by not activating them or removing them from whatever media drive is a part of the player.

To be honest I think this would actually HELP Anime Studios, why? Well it allows people like me to buy a legitimate copy of an anime instead of download a copy from the internet. If I was an anime studio, I would be very happy with that seeing as someone is actually BUYING my work rather than ripping it off from the net.

In terms of western sales, ADV has no real power over their anime releases the Japanese studios do. I've been trying to tell people this for a long time but they seem to forgot this.

I'll cut to the point, similar sorts of flexability options are going to be popping up in future media technology. There is a clear advantage in this because it allows flexability. Similar doubts were had about MP3s but now companies embrace MP3s.

It's not re-enginnering, it's overlaying. It's a read-only file overlayed with an extra that the user chooses to overlay. As I said before, this sort of thing is being implemented in future media so the idea of this specific thing isn't so far out.



In the end what you need to understand is this is a simple idea, not a perfect drawn up plan proposed to those who decides these things. When you come down to it, it is possible, especially with future tech in mind and the trends to allow media to be flexable much in the manner I have suggested.

[Moelman]

I think it's a very good idea, it could indeed become a possibility if you could sync the fansubs and the actual dvd correctly. I like it

[Lynk Former]

I've thought about the sync problem. It's quite simple, when a specific video starts, the frame timer for the subtitles start, simply sync it to that and then the rest is as simple as current methods.

[Moelman]

Yeah, I'm sure that could be done rather easily, that was just the only problem I could come up with Which means there's not much wrong with it

[Maverick]

the anime studios should put subtitles for most languages in their releases, it would be simplier and cheaper, I don't actually understand why they don't do that already, Macross Zero without english subtitles?? are they insane? are they losing the english market on purpose?

[Lynk Former]

It would be nice to see anime studios incorporate foreign languages into their subtitle options, but the interest isn't there since they are generally aiming their release at a Japanese audience despite the popularity of anime overseas.

I'd love to be able to see animes with English, German, Spanish, Tagalog subtitles, but it would prolong the DVD production time and studios want to release their DVDs as soon as possible. Which is why the idea of making digital media more flexable is a good one and is slowly being introduced into current and future media through different methods.

And you're absolutely right Mav, releasing Macross Zero without the foreign fans in mind is pretty damn crazy.

[Maverick]

but it would prolong the DVD production time and studios want to release their DVDs as soon as possible.

I don't know if that excuse is good enough, If I were the guy on charge I would do that right away, because I will get more attention from the foreign fans (and maybe get new ones) and beat one of the excuses for fansubing, how much can the release be delayed? If it's that much then I would make two versions, one for Japan and another for export.

I really don't understand why they aren't doing that now.......maybe because doing that would make my DVD less attractive for licensing?

It would be better than making the media more flexable because the media needs to be designed and tested several times, and it needs to be homologated, then people needs to update their equipement for meet the new specs, you need a lot of money and time for that. Normally nobody would to that just for the anime market

[MadMax]

Mav, I think what Lynk is getting at is the fact that those options ARE already in development for future technologies, like Blu-Ray, DVD-HD, home-combo-devices that include computers etc. They aren't made for anime but if anime studios switched to these formats one day, they could then make use of this (already pretested) feature.

[Maverick]

yeah but........my problem now is the anime studios not putting foreing languages in their releases