[Lynk Former]

What are we talking about again? *looks around*

[Hawkeye]

So what do you guys consider as Cannon?

[Lynk Former]

Everything except Macross II Lover's Again, and Macross Do You Remember Love?

DYRL was a dramatised movie made about the events that occurred in real life (the original series) and Macross II is seen as an alternate reality event.... but isn't accepted, kinda like Robotech, but with its own complexities.

[Stormfalcon]

*Walks in with crutches*
*Stabs Hawk in the left foot*

Okay, I didn't even bother to watch Macross 7 the series. So, I watched the movie. Parts of it, anyway. First off, I just wanted that little kid who follows Basara around to just DIE or something. God, he was annoying.

Secondly, why the hell did Basara's VF-19 Excaliber need a Power Rangers' style face? At least, that's how I look at it.

Oh, and btw, I was lucky to find a pic of the VF-25. Hard to find pics of it these days...

[Lynk Former]

Yeah, I was looking at that on a Macross forum a couple of days ago...

They've made a conscious decision to go back to the original Valkyrie (VF-1 series) design but still giving it the sleekness of the VF-19 (the prototype more than the versions shown in Macross 7)... they've pretty much gotten the two most loved Valkyrie designs and merged them together to get the VF-25 design. I love it.

[Hawkeye]

Reminds me of the SV-51 from Macross Zero

[Stormfalcon]

Ah, the SV-51. I can't think of any other adjective to describe it. The SV-51 was just plain badass.

The nose of the VF-25 kind of reminds me of the Russian Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker for some reason.

[Hawkeye]

Na'ah..... I don't see I think we need a call an expert in to answer this one....

KIAI!!! You work with Planes..... What you thoughts on Falcon idea....

[Stormfalcon]

Can you think of any real aircraft that at least somewhat resemble the VF-25 Hawk?

[Lynk Former]

Yeah, the SV-51 and VF-25 do look similar, but aside from having similar noses and cockpits, there's a lot more relation to the VF-1 series and the VF-19 series. The VF-25 retains the VF-0 and 1 series wings, and parts of its body structure with the rest coming from the VF-19 while adding the VF-19 style leg/turbine structure, length and style progression.

VF-1


VF-19


VF-25



SV-51


And just so you know, the SV-51's were based after the Sukhoi Su series.

I gotta say though XD I hate the SV-51's... the fact that they suddenly gave the anti-UN forces variable fighters was pretty silly in Zero and only done to give the UN forces something to fight against.

[Stormfalcon]

Well, what else were the UN forces supposed to fight against? More MiG-29s?

[Lynk Former]

That's the point I was making.. but it's still silly

[Prime]

Not a fan of the feet of the 25, but other than that it looks pretty sweet.

[Kiai]

HIOH PRIME!

The 25 is the only one that looks like it'd be able to fly! The 51 looks like shit and I agree with Lynk on the equal power struggle thing. The 51 would need wings twice as wide to give it enough lift to get off the ground; well, unless those two engines make up for it by producing thrust four or five times more then what the plane needs.

[Lynk Former]

@ Prime: Yeah, I was thinking that the VF-25's feet do kinda look like high heels lol.

@ Kim: I love how they try to brush it off in Zero like "hah, as if the UN were the only ones to have this technology".... YES, they are! XD For fucks sake. I'm willing to let Roy have his girls before Claudia cause he's a shameless womaniser, but the anti-UN forces having any kind of variable fighter? I call bullshit!

[Kiai]

I did like watching the Mig 29s get obliterated though. Its too sharp a contrast I think though... You have a fighter that doesn't look of this earth, then an old ass Russian rust bucket. The time gap is too huge.

[Stormfalcon]

Maybe they should have used some Su-27s instead. Those planes are awesome in my opinion. I mean, they can perform the cobra maneuver, which is a pretty amazing aerial maneuver.

[Lynk Former]

Who cares what kind of manoeuvres you can perform, overall air/space/universe superiority is what matters. *points*

Of course, there's more to Macross than just mecha...

[Kiai]

@Falcon: I don't know about that... The Su-35's are much more advanced and I would have accepted and Su-37 or 47 over a freaking mig. That and the thrust vectoring of the 37 would certainly have been a nice touch in one of those dog fighting scenes. Still though... out of all the premier aircraft in the world today you pick the mig. Fail.

@Lynk: Produce enough and eventually even something as insignificant as an ant can overwhelm a human being. Well, the human being a vast evil empire of over sized green people.

[Lynk Former]

@ Kim: duh

But then when you have Lynn Minmay on your side, you can win an entire Space War with inferior numbers.

[Stormfalcon]

@Lynk: Actually, maneuverability will keep you alive. *points* I'm sorry, but the way you said it, it sounded like you were implying that maneuverability isn't important at all. Which we all know is definitely not true.

@Kiai: I would have liked it if the UN was flying F/A-22s instead of Tomcats.

[Lynk Former]

@Lynk: Actually, maneuverability will keep you alive. *points* I'm sorry, but the way you said it, it sounded like you were implying that maneuverability isn't important at all. Which we all know is definitely not true.

Then you assumed way too much, I'm not that stupid. Also... the fact that I chose to post up a picture of a Valkyrie with a FAST pack wasn't because it looked cool...

@Kiai: I would have liked it if the UN was flying F/A-22s instead of Tomcats.

Also, this is Macross, not real life... real life military talk goes into the military nonsense thread.


EDIT: The point I'm trying to make is that they're jets that run on nuclear power and fly in space... what more realism do you want? XD

[Stormfalcon]

Whatever, Lynk. Screw the realism, it's anime.

On Macross Frontier, I'm beginning to wonder what kind of antagonists the series will feature. On the Anime News Network article, it seems that the only information we have is that the antagonists are described as, "a mysterious enemy". This leaves me wondering, will the "enemy" be like the Zentradi, or something completely different from what we've seen so far...

[Lynk Former]

Whatever, Lynk. Screw the realism, it's anime.

Don't put words in my mouth. But since we're getting a little nippy over here. I'll spell it out clearly. Macross is an anime that was developer in 1981-1982. So obviously around this time, Tomcats would be chosen as the template for the Valkyries and why the Zero's would have to follow that lineage. Also, like I said, we're talking nuclear powered jets in space here. I NEVER said screw realism, I'm saying there's more to consider than JUST the realistic side of things. This is a universe in itself and you have to pay attention to IT and what the creators put into it.

Anything you don't understand from that? Please tell me, cause I'm sure I can make it even clearer than that for you.

On Macross Frontier, I'm beginning to wonder what kind of antagonists the series will feature. On the Anime News Network article, it seems that the only information we have is that the antagonists are described as, "a mysterious enemy". This leaves me wondering, will the "enemy" be like the Zentradi, or something completely different from what we've seen so far...

I'm hoping to see some action with the Supervision Army. Fuck I hope it's them XD

[Kiai]

To the military nonsense thread I go then, obviously some people are a little too serious to keep it anywhere near mature here.

[Stormfalcon]

Don't put words in my mouth. But since we're getting a little nippy over here. I'll spell it out clearly. Macross is an anime that was developer in 1981-1982. So obviously around this time, Tomcats would be chosen as the template for the Valkyries and why the Zero's would have to follow that lineage. Also, like I said, we're talking nuclear powered jets in space here. I NEVER said screw realism, I'm saying there's more to consider than JUST the realistic side of things. This is a universe in itself and you have to pay attention to IT and what the creators put into it.

Anything you don't understand from that? Please tell me, cause I'm sure I can make it even clearer than that for you.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. I was just trying to say something humorous to conclude the argument so that you wouldn't have to type all that. *Facepalm*

I got everything that you just typed, so, no, there is no need to explain it any further, I get it. But I do appreciate your offer.

@Kim: Was I really that serious? *Sigh* I really need to stop being so serious...

[Lynk Former]

Thankfully Macross is about the power of love and culture over all else than just military kinda jazz.

[Stormfalcon]

*Impersonating Teal'C* Indeed.

The love triangle between Isamu, Myung, and Guld in Plus was a pretty interesting one. I like how it played out.

[Lynk Former]

I was just trying to say something humorous to conclude the argument so that you wouldn't have to type all that. *Facepalm*

Can I ask... where in the following quote was that indication of humour you were talking about? I ask since you went "*facepalm*" after seeing me do it to someone else.

Whatever, Lynk. Screw the realism, it's anime.

EDIT:

*Impersonating Teal'C* Indeed.

The love triangle between Isamu, Myung, and Guld in Plus was a pretty interesting one. I like how it played out.

Actually I was talking back to the original, but the love triangle in Plus is good too.





And LOL @ this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1LOKVwoVDA

[Stormfalcon]

I was hoping that the use of would be an indication of humor.

[Maverick]

The only thing that bugs me about valkyries are their air intakes, they obviously don't need them since they can fly in space, but whatever, air intakes do look cool I guess.

[Lynk Former]

Even if there is a reason for the air intakes, you kinda wonder what good it'll do for something that's nuclear powered though XD But then since these are all originally based on the Tomcat, it would be strange not to have them. Gotta continue the tradition.

[Maverick]

Gotta continue the tradition.

yeah, I thought that too.

[Stormfalcon]

You know, at first glance, I thought that the character (whose name I don't know) with the blue hair in the Macross Frontier trailer was a girl.

[Lynk Former]

It's your standard androgynous anime thing... you can never tell.

[Stormfalcon]

If that character was a girl, I'd be thinking..."ooooh a female pilot" and, pardon me for acting like you, Lynk, but "rwar!"

[Hawkeye]

Even if there is a reason for the air intakes, you kinda wonder what good it'll do for something that's nuclear powered though XD But then since these are all originally based on the Tomcat, it would be strange not to have them. Gotta continue the tradition.

Well I think the main reason is because the fighters arn't just space fighters, they were designed to be mainly used in an atmosphere originally. If they were designed to be space fighters why did they include Wings and a Rudder hun? No use what so ever... in a space enviroment

They might be Nuclear powered, but think for a minute... How do Nuke subs move? The Nuclear engine produceds the energy to turn the shaft which turns the sub propeller, It might be the same with the Fighter with the nuclear powerplant turning the Tuberjet blades....
I see that happening because you really don't want to dump loads of radiation particals into an atmostphere, but then what happens when there no atmosphere in space for that to work.... So it doe seem to be redundent there, maybe then the engine switch over to jumping the Radiation directly into space to produce the thrust needed to move the craft....

[Kiai]

Aesthetic value seems to be the only reason the intakes and other minor things are still on there. I'll find that cross body pic of the vf1 with transparent armor and see if I can't figure out what makes it tick. I'll post my findings after that.

@Hawk: Good argument.

[Maverick]

Well I think the main reason is because the fighters arn't just space fighters, they were designed to be mainly used in an atmosphere originally. If they were designed to be space fighters why did they include Wings and a Rudder hun? No use what so ever... in a space enviroment

that's why I didn't say anything about wings, my point is that if the engines can generate thrust in space, then just like a rocket, they can work in the atmosphere too. Anyway you can think in any obscure reason for the air intakes, a nuclear powered jet is already a fishy concept, you can't generate thrust with a nuclear reaction alone, you need a reaction mass, and blah blah blah ... see the Orion Project.

They might be Nuclear powered, but think for a minute... How do Nuke subs move?

The energy produced goes to a heat exchanger that boils water, the steam moves a turbine and then the turbine moves the propeller or an electricity generator. It's a steam engine, it all comes down to boil some water.

[Analog]

Good description Mav, except you left out one very important thing about the sub... the fact that its in the water. The propeller turning in a vacuum such as outer space would do nothing to provide thrust. In the ocean, the propeller turning forms a pressure difference across the blades, thus providing the thrust.

In space, you absolutely positively have to eject "something" from a spacecraft to move it... unless you are discussing other more advanced forms of propulsion (which the valkyries do not use).