[?????????]

I've been kicking around the idea of making a video game based on BGC2040 for awhile now and I've decided to go public with the idea to see if anyone's interested in helping out. Here are the current specifications.


- Point and click adventure
Like the japanese-only BGC! PCEngine game
Or Spellcaster for SMS (minus the action scenes)
Or Deja Vu and many others
-- Simple, easy to program.
-- Easy to make use of snapshots from the anime.
-- Good vehicle for dialog/writing


- Very basic combat system
Levels, EXP, HP etc.
-- Wouldn't be much fun with fighting some boomers!
-- Makes the game longer and more interesting
-- Lots of possibilities for expansion


- BGC2040 Characters
Well, I like the OVA too, but I intend to draw heavily from 2040 for graphics and music. MAYBE the OVA universe could be used, but only if there are a lot of really dedicated people who insist on it. Frankly, I doubt anyone will volunteer for this project anyway, so as long as it's vaporware I'd prefer for it to be 2040, if only because of the music (see below).


- Music from the 2040 OSTs
Many of the songs on the 2040 OSTs make very good game music.
Good music can really make or break a game and this is the biggest reasons I keep coming back to this idea of making a BGC game. Also, the 2040 music was pretty memorable/distinctive, if all the game does is provoke a feeling of nostalgia it should be considered a success.


- Not an h-game, ecchi, ren'ai, etc.
I don't intend for this game to appeal primarily to one's sense of lust or to have strong sexual content. This isn't going to be based on Parasite Dolls y'know...


- For Windows 98 and up
That's really the only platform I have tools and experience to develop for. But if you have experience with some cross-platform libraries and would like to do most of the coding yourself that's fine with me.


- Slow development process
I'm certainly not in a hurry. This is for fun, so it shouldn't matter if it takes months or years to complete. It's okay even if it takes a couple of months just to get a development team together so don't be shy about contacting me even if this post is very old.





##########################################


Okay, so now that you've got a basic idea of what I'm talking about, let's look at what needs to be done and how you can contribute!



- Graphics
Almost anyone can help out with this. Just take snapshots of graphics that might be useful. Backgrounds and character graphics mostly. Maybe a little animation. With some organization it's possible to divide up the episodes among the contributors to keep this from being overwhelming. The good part about this type of game is that it lends itself well to static pictures that can be easily extracted from the anime.

We also need more experienced people who can cleanup and edit the snapshots. I can do some of this myself, of course, but I don't have any of the real professional tools that can do edge-detection and other nice features which speed up the process.

Some original graphics would also be nice, for those of you who make fanart.


- Story / Dialog / Game Design
Here's where all you fanfic types can shine! We need a plot, interesting dialog and characterization, and compelling gameplay. Honestly, this is probably the hardest part of the project, and it's totally abstract stuff; all the concrete details should be easy (albeit time-consuming).
--General plot
--Locations
--Characters
--Objects to interact with
--Events
--Dialog
--Puzzles
--Rules for the combat part of the game

People with expert knowledge of the BGC technology details would be very valuable.

Since many of the different series are not consistent with each other I think it's okay to bend the rules a bit. It might be hard to make a game that fits into the 2040 timeline since a prequal wouldn't have Linna and nobody knows exactly what happened after the end of 2040. Also, they may actually get around to making 2041 someday. It could take place sometime during the middle of the series, but because of all the character and plot development that goes on during the series it might be difficult to keep everything consistent. So I'd say it's okay to make this yet another alternate universe. And if you want to pilfer some ideas from the spinoffs or the original series that's fine with me too.


- Programming
I have enough experience to make a game like this for Windows. However, if anyone with suitable programming experience would like to help that's fine with me. I'll even turn the coding over to you completely if you've got enough experience and determination.


- Audio
As I said, I intend to use the various 2040 OSTs so this should be pretty easy. However, it would be good to have some sort of fallback music in midi or tracker format for distribution/legal purposes. The only reason I can see us getting a cease and desist letter would be if we were distributing high-quality OST rips with the game. Realistically, I don't think anyone is going to care about shutting down a fan-made game, especially since it can't possibly hurt sales of the anime.
Sound effects aren't a very high priority.


- Website
Anyone willing to make a website for this project? A website may actually be crucial to this project because I can't just regularly spam BGC forums trying to recruit help. The problem is that there are a lot of BGC fans, many of whom would probably be interested in this project, but most of them don't regularly read forums or even browse BGC websites. Not suprising given the low level of activity on most of them.

It's perfectly fine if contributors come and go over the months (like I said above, this is intended to be a long term project), so that's why a website is practically necessary to recruit members; only a handful of people are likely to read this post before it disappears off the first page. Unfortunately, I don't know much about HTML, so getting a web designer may be the difference between success or failure.




So that's about it. I've summed up most of the issues for you all. I think it can be done, but I can't do it alone. I need the help of several enthusiastic people or this project simply won't go anywhere.


Feel free to contact me at the following address, even if you are reading this months after I originally posted it. Like I said above, it's okay for development (or even pre-development) to go slowly.

Append "at yahoo.com" to "bgcfan1980" to form my email address.


Even if you don't want to contribute, at least show your support if you think this is a good idea!

On the other hand, please don't tell me that it won't work. I already know that!

[darktruth]

I do remember a few years ago there was a sort of BGC 2040 skin for unreal tournament and it looked pretty good, though I never played it cos I just saw some screenshots.

I'm all for a BGC fan-game. I can't really help since I can't do really do any of the specific criteria's needed but I can provide some music. You have my support for this idea.

[Lynk Former]

I dunno ??? it takes a hellova lot of effort to try to take up a project like this. I'd love to see a game made but it'd have to be extremely organised and the people working on it will have to be dedicated and consistant enough to make sure it's WORTH making. Otherwise it'll just be a bunch of people running around in circles trying to create something which in the end doesn't actually come together...

[Briareos]

I have basic C++, Matlab, and Excel programming skills. Most of the stuff I've done is make it do funky math stuff, and a DOS style no graphics Blackjack game.

As for music you could probably convince the members of this German site here to let you use at least some of their audio files in the download section. It would probably be best to ask if you're going to do a project like this. Perhaps asking the crew responsible for the FPS conversions might be helpful.

I have some skill with fanfic writing, although I haven't done any BGC ones to date. This has been my latest work. I know I'm not that great, but I am at least somewhat decent, and could probably help with at least the overall plotline. Characterization and dialogue aren't my forte, but I can certainly do it if there's no one better.

Given I'm not overly familiar with 2040, but like the SM RPG game for Super Nitendo that doesn't mean we can't steal the monsters from 2040, and the stronger plot elements from 2033. The large Nine month period between Double Vision and Scoop Chase for example could be used. Being hired out by the USSD following the Largo incident to confirm his destruction could be at least part of the plotline. Perhaps this or a mission where you've been hired to take out a certain group of terrorists using boomers, in order to preserve a informant or some such, as the "tutorial mission" would be good.

[?????????]

darktruth:

Thanks for your support Anyone else think it's worth a shot? It really goes a long way as far as motivation if a few people step up to give their encouragement.

What did you have in mind as far as music?


Lynk Former:

Yeah, I know. That's why I'm reluctant to do anything beyond basic design until and unless I can get a team together. Even if nothing develops it's still a fun exercise though.


Briareos:

You're exactly the type of guy I need: someone who is good with the written word, creative, prolific, and very knowledgable about BGC! I had read some of your posts and was quite impressed with your detailed knowledge and analysis.

Like I said in my original post, I think it's okay to take elements from the many series. I'd prefer to use the '40 characters because there are 26 episodes of graphics to draw from, not to mention the OSTs. Also, I feel like I know the '40 personalities better than '33 and could probably be more helpful with the dialog in that case. But I'm willing to settle for whatever the contributors want to do, especially since the more creative aspects are my weak point. Hopefully some more people with good ideas will sign up and we can come to a consensus on which elements to use.

Dividing the game up into distinct missions sounds good. It makes things easier to keep things modular like that, especially since different people can design different missions without having to worry too much about conflicting plot details with other peoples' contributions. Some sort of super-plot that figures into most/all of the missions and helps tie everything together in the end would be great.

The tutorial mission would need to be fairly straightforward with only a few locations and simple puzzles to demonstrate the interface. Hunting down terrorists using boomers might be good, with some sort of lead-in to the next episode or maybe some unexplained mysteries that tie in with the larger plot. Can you come up with a basic plot sketch?

Some of the ubiquitous locations need to be drafter as well. I'm not as familiar with '33 so I don't remember where their base was located for example. I remember that reporter wannabe girl trailing Nene to their base but I can't recall exactly where that was. Anyway, a basic diagram showing the various basic locations and their interconnections might be fun, anyonw want to give it a shot?

Basic CLI programming in C/C++ is fine; it's possible to make most of the game without any graphics initially and it's easier to test console code. If you're a numbers guy you might want to try coding a simple combat simulator as a console program.


Anyway, feel free to continue brainstorming ideas and post them here or email/PM them me. Anyone else who wants to chip in ideas is more than welcome. Remember, this is for fun, so don't worry too much about whether this project will succeed or not; just enjoy the process and be creative!

[?????????]

In response to a PM, I am going to give a more compact and detailed summary of the specifications:


Type of game:
-Old school 2D point-and-click adventure game
-Very simple RPG system for combat and character growth

Graphics:
-Static backgrounds taken from anime
-Static character graphics taken from anime
-Maybe some limited animation as well

API:
-Windows GDI and/or DirectX (I've used both)
-WaveOut or DirectSound (I've only used the former)

Code:
-C or C++ if any C++ code is written by others
-1, maybe 2 coders at most
-No source control



These specs are preliminary and may change as more people get involved. However, I intend to keep things as simple as possible and avoid "feature creep."



My qualifications:

-Old school coder (CLI all the way!)
-Competent with (dis)assembly
-These days I mostly code in C using Watcom and mingw (gcc)
-Experience with bitmap/raster graphics only (both coding and pixeling)

Okay, so I'm not a professional C++ programmer using the latest tools, but I think I'm qualified enough to handle a game like this.



Read my first post for more details. It also explains ways in which you can contribute. If you want to help but don't think you have any skills, don't be discouraged, we'll try to help you along.

[darktruth]

darktruth:

Thanks for your support Anyone else think it's worth a shot? It really goes a long way as far as motivation if a few people step up to give their encouragement.

What did you have in mind as far as music?

I have a few ost's from 2040 and the singles but I can provide some music from Bubblegum Crash! and Parasite Dolls if you don't mind using music from other related bgc series for the fan-game.

[?????????]

I have a few ost's from 2040 and the singles but I can provide some music from Bubblegum Crash! and Parasite Dolls if you don't mind using music from other related bgc series for the fan-game.

Yeah, using music from other series is fine. The good thing about 2040 is that the two OSTs are full of good game music, but I have no problem including music from other series as well.

For 2040 I think I've got the main ones: OSTs 1 & 2, Collector's File, and As Sekira. Was there anything else?

I liked the music from Parasite Dolls but I honestly don't remember the music from BGC! If you want to pick out some tracks from your collection which you think would make good game music and send me lo-fi copies to sample that would be great

BTW, I'm thinking that "Bukkirabou na Ai ni Oboretai" (which translates something like "I want to drown in your blunt love") would go great for the staff roll. I like the 2040 intro a lot so I'd like to use "Y'know" for a simple intro animation. Another vocal piece could be used for the title screen, but I don't have any good ideas right now. Yeah, I know, those are some of the least important parts of a game, especially the credits, but they are also the easiest to design

It's better to use vocal pieces for those kinds of non-interactive sequences because in-game music generally works better if it is non-vocal. Fortunately, OSTs 1 & 2 are full of appropriate music, although a lot of the songs overlap somewhat. For example, Rebel Asia contains the music from Ghetto and Monster's Walk II, I think. I really need to go through the OSTs and catalog all that stuff.

I also liked the opening/closing music from ADPolice TV and Parasite Dolls, but it might be hard to work them into the game since they're vocal pieces. Same thing goes for a lot of the '33 music; I don't know what soundtracks were released for the original OVA (would that be OOVA?) but if there are any that are like the '40 OSTs then they could be used as well.

The music is definitely my favorite part to talk about

[Briareos]

Well tentatively:
Mission Briefing 1 [organizations tentative and more as placeholders presently]:
We (the FBI) have infiltrated a radical terrorist group. Our informant however is in something of a bind. He is deep enough to have become aware of a plot to use boomers and the train system to cause massive loss of life. If we try to stop this through official channels the terrorist group will likely be tipped off, and we will likely lose both our informant and not be able to stop the follow up attack. The Knight Sabers however have something of a reputation and if you were to stop them, we can preserve both our informant and the lives of all those civilians.

10 million will be provided up front if you accept this mission, with 30 million on completion.

Details to follow.

Mission Briefing 2:
The USSD has been unable to confirm the fate of the boomer which hacked the OPBS (Orbital Particle Beam Satellite) network in January 2033. As the Knight Sabers proved reasonably competent in the past, the present administrator has decided to contract them out to investigate this matter. Fee is 10 million up front, and 50 million upon being able to confirm the boomers fate to the USSD?s satisfaction.

Ending for this mission: You can either have them eventually tracking down a destroyed or semi-functional Largo, or basically just conduct an investigation that ends with something like a dead repairman.

Possible overarching plot could center around the OMS. Handling that well however would be something of a trick, especially as I?m not sure anyone is particularly clear on what the OMS does, beyond presumably controlling boomers. It could be like the black box, which given Largo?s attitude seems likely, or it could actually keep the boomers in check. Suggestion: you could have them eventually after finding out about it begin investigating what backdoor Genom let itself, and attempt to create a ?virus? to nail said backdoors shut.

I have some old C++ code I wrote up to randomly simulate dice of any number of sides and number of dice, I should be able to alter that to create the core for calculations. I?d have to look again to be sure, however in 2033 I?m reasonably sure Raven?s Garage is in the fault line canyon. Of course, by Scoop Chase Raven is mysteriously absent, and Mackie seems to own the place now. In Scoop Chase a testing facility was under it. Otherwise the ?headquarters? was basically Sylia?s building and an apartment where they actually met, which one assumes is in the same building. They deployed from an underground parking lot, also presumably in the same building.

Vehicles comprised of:
Camouflaged Silky Wagon: On the outside it just looks like one of their standard delivery trucks. Open up the side however and you?ll find four racks for motoslaves, and presumably hardsuits. There is a standard fueling nozzle on the right hand side towards the front. Apparently there is access to a small room on the driver side, which can presumably be used as a changing room is one wants to preserve their modesty and has to change in the field.

?Knight Saber Trailer?: A Big Semi-ish vehicle this is the most used. It has arms for deploying two motoslaves while moving. It has a spacious interior and presumably a lot of computer and sensor equipment. They often change in this vehicle.

Additionally there was a rotor craft much like those in use by the ADP. This however only showed up in Red Eye?s and its base is unknown from strictly OVA data. It can carry at least two heavy motoslaves in addition to the Knight Sabers.

Present concept for combat system:
I?m thinking something more like the KOTOR system then the normal one. Level building is important, but not the same spend 5 hours on the actual game 15 hours building levels so you can club the baddies to death and survive getting clubbed to death in return approach. The normal approach just doesn?t fit BGC worth anything.

Each Knight Saber will have an innate dodge skill, shoot ability, and melee ability. The hardsuits will add to these, and have both an armor rating and virtual health point rating. Damage to the virtual health point rating will effect the bonuses added.

I intend to emphasize dodge ability with Knight Sabers, and even have it so they take like half damage with an almost dodge. Say if roll and attack ability are only 10 points greater then the defending dodge ability.

Weapons will basically have a fixed damage setup, although the hardsuits themselves can level up at a rather slow rate simulating refinements.

Boomers have:
Dodge Skill
Shoot ability
Melee ability
Hit Points
Armor rating
Fusion rating
Crit rating

The Crit rating being indicative of the construction of the boomer. All ratings except the crit rating shall be proportional to the fraction of hit points remaining. The armor rating will subtract directly from the damage simulating such thing as it being shot up and taking no damage. The fusion rating if greater then the result shall greatly reduce the actual number of hit points subtracted. Thus simulating the effects of the Member II (Priss's handgun) in the first OVA.

Virtual AI could be done by setting up the RNG function to select from its attacks. Targeting who is attacked can be handled similarly although we could have multiple strategies it randomly picks.

Civilian boomers will have a 0 or 1 rating for Armor and fusion.

Have a number assigned to each type baddie and keep their data in an array file. I intend to double up the data in the computed array so you have their original data, and their temp data, which is used in actual combat calculations. Original data shall be kept in one file and present data on knight sabers in another for the purpose of saving. I?m unsure how you?d save their place though, and interface or world building programming is not something I really know how to do.

The combat system I?m pretty sure I can setup. At least to the point something else would tell it x number of i,j, and k badguys by numbers, and a command line interface for selecting attacks for the Knight Saber side. Of course, after it is setup we?ll need to tinker with it to get the system properly balanced, but that's purely data not code.

I suspect other members have a lot more experience with RPG combat systems then me, so how does this sound? You should be able to use this additionally to do AD Police type stuff, although given their stuff basically only has a melee attack and a gun attack it might not be worth it. Might be fun just for the entertainment value to let them control K-11s or K-12Ss though in a lead up where whether they die doesn't matter.

[?????????]

I haven't played KOTOR. I found a little information about the d20 system but nothing about how character growth works. Could you explain please?

I totally agree that level building shouldn't play a big part in games. The way I see it, a player shouldn't have to build levels (as long as they are fighting at least some battles regularly) but they might have a rough time fighting the boss. It's much more exhilirating to win by the skin of your teeth, IMO, but less experienced players and those who want a guaranteed easy win can spend an extra 15 minutes or so leveling up. That's my ideal design for that sort of thing.

Also, the way I see it, there should always be some kind of reward for battles (exp, treasure, whatever) for any type of game, otherwise battles simply become a nuisance. As really good example, I rarely got annoyed by enemy encounters in Saga Frontier because there was always the chance of learning new weapon/magic/etc. skills, which was very, err, exciting!

Your rules system sounds good and should be easy to implement. Regarding the code implementation, I'll send you some more information privately as I don't want to scare people away with code talk But let's continue to keep the general ideas discussed in the forum to hopefully encourage other people to join in.

As you asked yourself, any comments from other forum members about these game rules? Are they adequate to simulate combat in Mega Tokyo? How about the plot ideas? Do they sound suitable to write some compelling dialog and interesting game play? Any alternate ideas?

You can also contact me privately by PM or the email address in my first post, if you don't want to post in this forum.


BTW, does anyone have the R. Taslorian (sp?) BGC RPG books?
Bubblegum Crisis: Before & After (AM8011)
Bubblegum Crisis Rulebook (BG8001)

I read a review that said they were pretty good, but that they had a few errors. They might have some useful statistics and other data.

I'm starting to think this project might actually succeed if we can just get a few more people involved. Anyone willing to make a homebase webpage for the project?

[Lynk Former]

I'd be willing to create a homepage for it, but only if things ACTUALLY get going. Prove to me that you've gotten a good team happening that will get actual results then I'm in.

[Digital Dreamer]

I do remember a few years ago there was a sort of BGC 2040 skin for unreal tournament and it looked pretty good, though I never played it cos I just saw some screenshots.

There was a BGC mod for Duke Nuk'Em too.

[?????????]

I'd be willing to create a homepage for it, but only if things ACTUALLY get going. Prove to me that you've gotten a good team happening that will get actual results then I'm in.

Thanks Lynk Former! It's going to be tough to get a team together though...

It's kind of a Catch-22 situation: no one wants to join a team that doesn't have any members. I picked this forum because it's the most active one I could find, but it still doesn't have enough activity to reach a large pool of potential recruits and as I said, I don't want to keep spamming forums.

A website might help but, as you pointed out, it's hard to justify making a website for a game that's still vaporware, and I totally agree. But I just came up with an idea that IS justifiable and would benefit everyone:

Make a website (or a section of an existing website) about BGC games! There aren't many, but it would be nice to have all the information (and possibly downloads) about all the known games and mods in one place.

There are at least two commercially released BGC games that I know of and from this thread people have listed two FPS mods; there may be more. There is also the officially licensed BGC RPG and numerous rule adaptions for other gaming systems, like Shadowrun. You could even include information about other commercial software like the "BGC music video screen saver" that is mentioned in the OVA credits.

A lot of the above information seems to be unavailable or scattered around and most pages that have information about mods or RPG rules have broken links. So it would be possible to make a useful website for BGC fans and you could include a small section for our project which lists the current specifications, members, and contact info.

So you don't have to worry about whether or not the project succeeds because it would only be a small part of a larger webpage. Even if you DON'T include info on this fan game project then it would still be a worthwhile endeavor to undertake and I'd still like to see someone make such a webpage. (BTW, I've got the PC88 game, if you want it.)

So how about it?

[darktruth]

Yeah, using music from other series is fine. The good thing about 2040 is that the two OSTs are full of good game music, but I have no problem including music from other series as well.

For 2040 I think I've got the main ones: OSTs 1 & 2, Collector's File, and As Sekira. Was there anything else?

I liked the music from Parasite Dolls but I honestly don't remember the music from BGC! If you want to pick out some tracks from your collection which you think would make good game music and send me lo-fi copies to sample that would be great

BTW, I'm thinking that "Bukkirabou na Ai ni Oboretai" (which translates something like "I want to drown in your blunt love") would go great for the staff roll. I like the 2040 intro a lot so I'd like to use "Y'know" for a simple intro animation. Another vocal piece could be used for the title screen, but I don't have any good ideas right now. Yeah, I know, those are some of the least important parts of a game, especially the credits, but they are also the easiest to design

It's better to use vocal pieces for those kinds of non-interactive sequences because in-game music generally works better if it is non-vocal. Fortunately, OSTs 1 & 2 are full of appropriate music, although a lot of the songs overlap somewhat. For example, Rebel Asia contains the music from Ghetto and Monster's Walk II, I think. I really need to go through the OSTs and catalog all that stuff.

I also liked the opening/closing music from ADPolice TV and Parasite Dolls, but it might be hard to work them into the game since they're vocal pieces. Same thing goes for a lot of the '33 music; I don't know what soundtracks were released for the original OVA (would that be OOVA?) but if there are any that are like the '40 OSTs then they could be used as well.

The music is definitely my favorite part to talk about

There are instrumentals to Y'know and Waiting For You coming from the singles. I also think there was an instrumental to Bukkirabouna Ai ni Oboretai from one of the singles too. Basically the opening and closing themes to Parasite Dolls and 2040 have instrumental versions on their singles.

[Lynk Former]

Minimising the use of actual official material from the companies involved in the creation of Bubblegum Crisis would be the wise thing to do...

[?????????]

Minimising the use of actual official material from the companies involved in the creation of Bubblegum Crisis would be the wise thing to do...

If you're talking about distributing MP3 of soundtracks then yeah, that has some risk to it. That's why I suggested tracked/sequenced versions as an alternative. The problem is that we'd need a music specialist. I am capable of editing the soundtracks (shortening them, adding repeats, etc.) but creating arranged versions is a much more difficult job.

As for graphics: well, I think it's unavoidable. Creating original graphics is far beyond the scope of this project. I suppose it could be done, but I am very pessemistic about getting artists with enough skill and experience. I honestly don't think the copyright owners of the anime would care though; if anything it would only benefit them. Soundtracks aren't as clear, however.

Does anyone know how much legal trouble those anime music video creators get into? I'd guess it would mostly be from US record companies, not Japanese anime companies. This project is somewhere inbetween: using Japanese graphics and music.

[?????????]

There are instrumentals to Y'know and Waiting For You coming from the singles. I also think there was an instrumental to Bukkirabouna Ai ni Oboretai from one of the singles too. Basically the opening and closing themes to Parasite Dolls and 2040 have instrumental versions on their singles.

You're right, I checked this out on the bgcc page. Looks like I've got some more material to acquire... From my experience instrumentals may or may not work as game music. It depends on how closely they follow the original vocal track. For example, most of the piano/pad mixes on the collectors file wouldn't work. Some instrumentals work very well, however, especially if they have a variety of instruments. I'm especially curious about how the instrumental version of the PD closing theme sounds.

Any comments on "No Obligation" and "Give and Take" ?
They're labeled "as Sekiria" but do they have any direct connection to BGC?


I went through all the soundtracks I have and categorized them and took notes. I also made some lists of possible uses for many of the tracks. I'm so happy with River Flows and its variations; you could build an entire game around those 4 tracks.

I also picked a possible title screen track: Blue Confusion. Any comments? It's not obvious why, so I'll explain my reasoning if anyone wants to discuss it. It might need to be cut down a little bit though.

There are other possibilities as well. For example, Bukkirabou instrumental for the title and Bukkirabou vocal for the credits. That pairing would probably work very well.

Since the current design is leaning towards '33 a completely different score would probably have to be developed. The '40 music just doesn't fit. Compare the collectors file version of Hurrican with the original, for a perfect example. They're both good, but incompatible.

So I'm going to need to research and possibly acquire some soundtracks for the original two OVAs. Anyone have any details about them off-hand?


Hey Lynk Former, I found some 404's

PD music link is broken.

Some of the links to the album covers for 2040 are missing or broken
-vocal collection
-waiting for you single

BTW, what's the JIS code for the Kanji on track 3 of No Obligation? It's listed as umi (sea) but from what I can see of the photo it doesn't look like it. The edges are too flat. From what I can see it could be "pus" but that seems doubtful. Just curious...

[Maverick]

I do remember a few years ago there was a sort of BGC 2040 skin for unreal tournament and it looked pretty good, though I never played it cos I just saw some screenshots.

That would be the skin I did for BGC Online, there was only screenshots because It was never finished and not released to public. I'm still working on the skin on my free time, someday it will be done :P

@ ????????? <-- is that written in kanji or something? I only see a bunch of "?" XP
what's a point and click adventure game? sort of Diablo? or Myst? I don't know any of the games you mentioned (PC user only here)

[MadMax]

That would be the skin I did for BGC Online

No, I believe he's talking about the 2040 hardsuit models that were released by that guy Alexander whom we tried to win for BGCO.

???, we already tried creating a game based on BGC when this forum was still open in the old version. We worked on it for more than one year and it never got off the ground. Of course a point & click adventure is much easier to create than what we had in mind, and if you can pull it off, I'd love to see you do it. Problem is, lots of people around here had art skills and that stuff, but technical skills were missing (you need more than one coder and level designer to make a game like this).

Good luck with this...

EDIT: Some info for you.

Any comments on "No Obligation" and "Give and Take" ?
They're labeled "as Sekiria" but do they have any direct connection to BGC?

No Obligation is a mini-album (or an EP) released by the group of musicians who played the AS Sekiria songs for BGC 2040. This album is not part of BGC, it's a standalone project (although it sounds a lot like BGC). Give And Take is a song from that album.

BTW, what's the JIS code for the Kanji on track 3 of No Obligation? It's listed as umi (sea) but from what I can see of the photo it doesn't look like it. The edges are too flat. From what I can see it could be "pus" but that seems doubtful. Just curious...

That song is labeled "Anata no Umi" in my list.

Classic BGC soundtracks are floating around on the net, I have them all, instrumental and vocal. Actually Lynk planned to host all of them on this site, but so far only the 2040, PD and ADP stuff has made it up.

By the way, why are you thinking so much about music when there is no game yet to include it in? Maybe you could develop some demo or alpha version and then decide which music to put in; otherwise you'll end up researching music, art and whatnot for way too long during which time you could have written program code.

[?????????]

Maverick: About the username: yeah, kinda. I was trying to be cute with kanji but it backfired somewhere along the way. I wasn't paying attention so I don't know if I accidently messed up the text while I was cutting and pasting it around or if the forum simply couldn't handle it. It could also have been the wrong encoding on export. Oh well...

Point and click adventure game: I guess it's kinda like Myst, although I honestly haven't played it.

Basically, you've got static backgrounds for locations, as seen in the first person. Each location is a separate picture and you've got a menu of choices.

-Move to a different location
-Examine background or any objects
-Talk to a character (if any are present)
-Take
-Use

...and so on. If you take away the graphics it's kinda like the really old text adventures except with a much stricter interface.

Some adventure games like Monkey Island or Indiana Jones are a bit more complex with scrolling backgrounds and animated third-person character graphics. These are not what I'm aiming for.

As you can see, it should be fairly easy to take backgrounds from the various anime, as well as some character portraits. Combine that with the ready-made sountrack and you've got enough assets to make a game without the need for artists or musicians.


MadMax: Too bad I didn't know about your project at the time I would have gladly signed up.

My position is sort of the opposite: I can handle the technical aspects but I need help with the creative stuff.

By the way, why are you thinking so much about music when there is no game yet to include it in? Maybe you could develop some demo or alpha version and then decide which music to put in; otherwise you'll end up researching music, art and whatnot for way too long during which time you could have written program code.

Well, one basic reason: design. It's something that I'm capable of designing and I'm hoping that by discussing it in a public forum I can get people involved in the design or at least interested in the project.

The hardest part of creating any significant program is design, especially for games. References suggest you should have several levels of a game completely designed on paper, with storyboards, concept art, etc. before beginning to code. This is very good advice because if you start coding before you know exactly what the program will eventually need to do, it will probably be a disaster.

That's why I'm reluctant to start coding without a good team and a solid design. If I did, I would expect one of two things would happen, from my own experience:


1) I'd make a simple demo that would work, but would be too simple to use for a real game. From personal experience, it's a lot of work to rewrite a program and reusing code is not as easy as you might think. Ultimately I'd probably have to rewrite the entire program from scratch IF and when I got the help I needed to make a full game.

2) To avoid the wasted effort described above, I'd try to make it so generalized that it would become way too complicated and I'd just give up. This sort of thing has happened before.


So without a very solid design in place, I would consider it a waste of time to start coding.

Design on the other hand, is not wasted effort. At the very least it is a mental exercise and can provide useful ideas for other projects. Even though I haven't written any code I've still thought about the structure that would be necessary. What I need the most help with is the stuff I'm no good at: see the bullet labeled "Story / Dialog / Game Design" in my very first post.


So, anyone willing to contribute some design ideas? Interested in ripping some graphics? Want to talk about the music? Passionate about fan fiction?

Any veterans from other BGC games want to give it another shot?


Thanks for the info, BTW. If they sound similar then they might be usable.

[Maverick]

well to be honest, I would join you and do whatever the game needs, but I'm not too thriller about this type of game, i can't help it, point and click adventure game with ripped graphics doesn't give me any interest even if is a BGC one, I apologize for being too severe, but well, is what I think.

Still I'll try to help, if I see some particular subject I can help with, like drawings or concept art, I'll gladly do them.

[?????????]

It's not my favorite game genre either, but it was the best I could come up with. It's a good balance between ease of development and level of quality; taking graphics and music from the anime should yield a production of moderate quality and the coding requirements are realistic for one person. With a large, motivated team something better could be done of course, but...

[Briareos]

Personally I think this issue deserves some thought and is important enough to break off from the main game thread.

Simply put should we have a Player Character?

If we do we can have the person basically select from three classes, which will effect the hardsuit they operate and whether they have to deal with certain puzzles or not. Basically you would be the newest member of the Knight Sabers.

At present I'm thinking:
1) Hacker/Sensor operator : basically a suit like Nene's, and you help with the code breaking more, and less combat. Ideally it would be set so you hang out more with Nene, Sylia, and Mackie.
2) Grunt: A combat suit like Linna's or Priss's. Much more combat oriented game with a demphasis on puzzles. Ideally character hangs out more with Priss and Linna, who basically show you the ropes.
3) Unknown: At this point I'm not decided what this would be, and am open to suggestions at what their team could use.

Why bother you ask? Well the type of game as I understand it is especially ideally setup to allow for communication. Basically you just cell the characters on the background, and you can show various expressions, while dialogue and dialogue options are available in the user input box. In effect allowing them to react to how you respond and what not. So instead of walking around in say Priss's head most of the game you operate your character who interacts with the enviroment and characters. Additionally if properly setup, it allows the game to be adjusted for a greater emphasis on certain things and allows certain aspects a more general approach aimed purely at a LCD player to possibly be shown better.

Alternately we can still have a player character, but have them completely fixed in what they do beforehand.

The disadvantage is of course, we're breaking with canon on there being four Knight Sabers. Personally I'd rather avoid any unnecessary glorification of the player character, and have them working more as part of the Knight Saber organization.

So what do you think?

[Lynk Former]

...What are you talking about exactly?

[Maverick]

this is about the game of ????? guy

eh dunno, I'm not sure about it because I still don't understand how the game will be. But I'd go for choosing the class, just because.
In the BGC mod we were working on last year the idea was to put a training mission were depending of your results you get to play one of the four sabers...you couldn't choose it in a select screen

[?????????]

(For those of you just joining us, we're discussing a BGC fan game that we're trying to design. See the first thread for a more thorough description.)

Very good point.

Should you play as one (or more) of the original Knight Sabers or as a new character? (i.e. as a "player character", or PC)

The advantage of having a PC is it would be easier to design the game and you could interact with all of the 4 KS. It would be possible to give the player more freedom on what to do as there wouldn't be any need to ask questions like "would Nene really do or say something like that?"

The alternative (playing as an original KS) would likely be designed such that you play as one of the KS for the entire game (like the BGC! game) or at least for large sections of the game. In one mission you might play as Nene, then you might play as Sylia in the next mission, for example. The really old PC88 game allowed you to play as any character, but only one at a time. Presumably, certain characters were needed at certain points in the game. If you reached a dead end you could try again with a different KS who might have different abilities or interactions with NPCs necessary to advance. That's another possibility, but it is probably the most difficult to design and tends to suffer from generic encounters.



So let's look at the poll:

Player Character?
- No. Control a canon KS.
- Yes, and allow me to decide the class.
- Yes, but have her predefined.


Now I'll describe these in more detail:

- No. Control a canon KS.

In other words, play as one of the 4 original Knight Sabers. It may be possible to switch characters from time to time. Dialog choices would necessarily be limited to help conform to the characters' personalities.


- Yes, and allow me to decide the class.

This is kinda like an RPG where you create a new character. The best example I can think of would be Shadowrun for the Genesis/Megadrive; you play as the same character and the plot is the basically the same but you pick one of three classes to play as. As below, this would be a new character, not one of the original Knight Sabers. There would probably be the most "generic" elements in this version, with the player deciding how to act, etc. Even the name could be chosen by the player.


- Yes, but have her predefined.

Play as a "new" fifth Knight Saber. Many attributes and possibly personality will be predefined, more so than with the previous option. We could even go so far as to develop graphics for this character, if there are any artists interested in doing so. There's a lot of potential for creativity in this one.


So now that you understand, please place your vote! Which of these three game ideas do YOU think would be the most fun to play? Additional comments and ideas are also welcome!

[Lynk Former]

*merges the two threads* I'd rather you guys didn't hijack the BGC forum with this game.

[?????????]

I don't think that guy likes me and my idea very much I've been getting bad vibes from him ever since I started this thread. It's not a good feeling...

Well, I could be wrong, but based on my interpolations of the currently available data (i.e. reading between the lines) and extrapolating from there, I'd say we'd probably be better off leaving now, or maybe even just calling it quits... He's been gracious enough so far, but I honestly can't see Mr. Former putting up with this indefinitely.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I'm still interested in this project and I've got some new ideas that might be feasible even though we don't have enough members for my original plan. Those of you who still want to be involved: PM or email me (see the first post in this thread). I don't think it would be wise to continue discussing things here too much longer.

[Lynk Former]

What are you talking about? We had a thing like this in the last incarnation of the forum called Bubblegum Crisis Online. But the people who started it were smart enough to keep it in one thread. Over time more people joined the team and then because the production of the game was going full steam ahead at the time I created a forum for them so they could get organised, etc. A whole forum for their game development!

I'm not discouraging your efforts, I'd just rather it stayed in one thread at the moment, because it's just getting started. If you get to the stage where you have a large team and need more space, I'll give you that extra space because for some reason, I'm a nice guy.

Of course you can do what you want, leave or stay, just don't whine cause I merged two threads together.

[MadMax]

Lynk's right, back in BGCO's days he gave us some serious discussion space to work on, so you can't say Lynk discourages any of your doing.

well to be honest, I would join you and do whatever the game needs, but I'm not too thriller about this type of game, i can't help it, point and click adventure game with ripped graphics doesn't give me any interest even if is a BGC one, I apologize for being too severe, but well, is what I think.

Same goes for me. With BGCO's failure I was very disappointed that it had come to this, so any new game catches my interest, however a point-and-click 2D adventure is not very BGC-like in my opinion.

[Briareos]

Okay I'm dubbing him TBQ from now on, which is short for "The Big Question mark." Unless someone has something better to call him.

*whining, complaining, defeatism, and acting about 25% of TBQ's shoe size.*

Honestly, now. If I had the screen cap of Nene's coworker (Miss Vision tickets) bopping her one in Scoop Chase handy I'd subtitle it appropriately and post it.

Your marketing skills are not exactly that great. I'm interested in trying to pull this off, but even I don't have confidence you have a clear idea what you're doing, let alone actually the ability to truly pull something like this off. Your latest antics don't help this at all. Nor does the fact you don't seem to ackowledge the links I provided particularly to the 4 Unagi Arts FPS conversions hosted at Raven's Garage. Given last time I checked, I am your _entire_ present staff I think that should carry some weight.

I personally want to apologize to Lynk for pre-empting the break off thread. It just seemed the main one was organized towards recruiting, and it would be more efficient to run things in parallel. Apparently I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Also given TBQ doesn't seem to have a clear idea what he's suggesting it was rather presumptious of me.

[Lynk Former]

Don't worry, I'm sure you guys will be able to make something out of this, it's just going to take a bit of time and planning. If you can get an artist someone who can right a screenplay/script/story, you're already half way there since that's pretty much the majority of what a point and click adventure is.

I'd like to find an artist too actually lol. I have a web comic series on hold because I can't find anyone really good to draw kickass pictures for me XD.

[?????????]

I apologize if I misread you Lynk Former, but as I said, I've been perceiving bad vibes from you for some time and apparently I thought wrong. I assumed this whole thing was a nuisance to you and I wasn't about to continue letting that happen. Had I been correct though that would have been the right move though, ne?

Unfortunately, now apparently I've lost credibility with my entire staff (Briareos), who now has some harsh criticism for me. I'm not quite sure where he stands at the moment.

So, any suggestions on what to do now? Admittedly, my ideas haven't been so succesful thus far.


The player character issue was interesting. We've got some votes but no discussion yet. I still haven't managed to provoke much response on any topics but we did get sidetracked on this last one so let's open the floor for comments or questions on the player character issue again.


Briareos:

Nor does the fact you don't seem to ackowledge the links I provided particularly to the 4 Unagi Arts FPS conversions hosted at Raven's Garage

I'm not sure what you wanted me to acknowlege about them. I checked them out but it didn't seem like there was much that could be borrowed from them, being FPS shooters and all.

Regarding the German site. I gave it a quick glance initially but I didn't give it much thought because I already had the '40 stuff and wasn't thinking about using '33 music at that time. I will start investigating those soundtracks now as it will give me something constructive to do while I'm waiting for the fallout to pass.

Sorry if I don't meet your expections. You're more than welcome to take over as leader if you want. Anyone else with a clear vision is also welcome to do so.



MadMax:

a point-and-click 2D adventure is not very BGC-like in my opinion.

I disagree. Which was more important to the series: action or characters? I'd say characters.

Dialog, story, plot, and character interaction are all much easier to work with in this type of game. They'd only play a minor role, at best, in an action game, unless perhaps you were making a big budget commercial action RPG or something.

Why not take 15 minutes and play the BGC! game (it's available nearby, just do some digging). It's completely Japanese and you probably won't be able to get out of the first room, but you'll have a basic idea of the kind of character interaction that's possible.

[MadMax]

Side note, the game he's referring to is available for download along with an emulator to play it on, at Raven's Garage.

[?????????]

Once again, no discussion. That's OK though, Mr. B has some different plans. We've done some reorganizing and have come up with a new strategy, although I have no idea when it will actually get implemented.

And... some code has actually been written! That's right, I made an interactive (if you consider "press any key" to be interactive) demonstration of some basic functions. You can see a screen-shot to the left. The program demonstrates the following:

Screen fades in/out

Separate backgrounds and character graphics

Translucent blend-ins when a character enters

Translucent text box with character portrait (not animated yet)

Animated text with blinking cursor. Waits for input then clears the box and writes more text, if necessary.

A title screen that plays a clip from "Blue Confusion" and says "press start"


I said it would be a waste of time to start coding before a design is in place, but it's really easy when you hard-code everything and don't care too much about being able to expand on it. Anyway, it's not much but it does prove that making a decent looking product is not that hard, if you've got the graphics. With the exception of animation, graphically you really don't need to be able to do much more than that for a game like this.

[Dertt]

K, so the thread is several months dead it seems, but if the original poster is still existent, I would like to volunteer my services as either a writer or an artist (if non-screencap graphics become neccessary at some point).

[Kiai]

You know, now that I think about it, why not release a pre-beta so that we can at least have an idea what your talking about. I'm all for this thing, and its too bad bgc UT went under, because I was pretty sure that one had the look of a winner.

[Briareos]

Well...
How do I put this, I kept requesting a demo be setup that'd have an actual basic menu setup to show we could do it. TBQ wanted screen caps to do this, and I didn't feel like pushing to hard that he didn't need them to prove the concept in the ability to program the basics. He got his screen caps months ago, and didn't reply to that or continue correspondance in any form. As a matter of fact he went silent earlier then that, the last message I have from him was on the 18th of February. I setup the website as planned afterwards, but still no peep out of him.

He did come up with a demo that'd layer the pictures, and change from an opener to the scene his avatar shows by pressing any key. Checking the link, he no longer has that up. I probably have a copy of the files somewhere though. I don't have the first clue how to program GUI, so the prospects of actually producing a game are pretty low at this point.

I've been busy with life, so haven't updated the site in a while. I've concepted out an auxilary squad, that doesn't take away from the existing one, but I don't know. TBQ has his e-mail address listed in that post, so if you really want to try to get in contact with him you can try. If you want to help with my webpage or want help, oh wait it's down because they switched servers on me. I guess that's just incentive to get to work.

I wouldn't mind batting some ideas back and forth, as far as storyline. I guess you/we could turn around and turn it into a fic if we can't locate another programmer.

[Lynk Former]

Got a link to the site?

[Morpheus]

If you guys ever try to make the game a reality again I can offer some assistance in some areas. I am no programmer. I have helped people design games before though. I also can help with story ideas. Lastly, I have a few cels from BGC 2040. Some close up face shots, some waist up shots, and a few others. I'd be willing to offer up scans of them as art for the game if need be.