[Lynk Former]

@ Hawk: No, the Valkyries were designed as space fighters originally with the intent on fighting the Zentradi, the whole Macross project was designed to send man into space. The decision to model the fighter after the Tomcat was made for real world value at the time the anime was made. Like I said before, it was the coolest thing ever at the time, so naturally you designed a transforming mecha out of it.

Also, this isn't a human-made nuclear power source we're talking. This nuclear power is "reaction based" (which is a term used back then because of the cold war and the fact that it was seen that the good guys weren't the ones who used nukes to destroy their enemies)... the technology was actually developed using the overtechnology found on the Macross and works differently and is more powerful than anything a human could develop alone.

But anyway, I have been reading up on the Valkyrie's power plant and apparently the air intakes do have a few uses. The Valkyries do have a backup chemical based fuel tank and apparantly it also uses the intake for reverse thrust... or so I read.

[Hawkeye]

Look Lynk.... if they designed it as a space fighter it would have looked like one of those space fighters that the ARMD-class space carriers would carry rather then something that needs a rudder in a vacum of space. If need be a fighter with thruster control would be better like a Space Fury from B5, rather then something base on an a Tomcat

Oh and I'll loked this up.....

Powerplant
Engines 2 Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 thermonuclear turbine engines
Thrust 11,500 kgf (23,000 kgf in overboost) 113 kN (226 kN)
Generation Power 650 MW

[Lynk Former]

That's not the point I was making, the point I was making is that it's the "hero" fighter in the series. That's why it was based on the Tomcat which at the time was the "hero" fighter in real life. I don't know how to make that much clearer other than to repeat the fact that the Tomcat design was chosen simply because at the time the Tomcat was the coolest fucking thing in the sky.

I mean come on, why are you trying to make sense out of that when you have an aircraft carrier and landing craft attached to the Macross (i'm referring the Prometheus and Daedalus).

Also, nowhere does it say that Valkyries are Jets. The VF-X and VF-0's were jets, but not the VF-1's and later variants.


EDIT: Oh man, I just remembered this and I should've posted it earlier.



One could ask why the hell an X-Wing needs air-intakes when its primary function is space superiority... not to mention the billion other things that's completely wrong with it if you take reality into account. But we don't ask, cause the X-Wing is fucking awesome either way... that and because the people who created the X-Wing and the universe it belongs to have come up with their own explanations, no matter how stupid they may seem in the real world.

[Chimasterwang]

@Valky Rant Thing: It's not real life, it's an anime =P
Yeah Lynk on picking stuff cause it looks "cool" XD

[Kiai]

The intakes would make sense on a level of "extreme outer edge of the atmosphere" flight, the scramjet design capitalizes on that, the intakes close in space and the "fuel" is burned like rocket boosters. I say fuel, because I did a search for macross designs and came across the cell where Ben is hit and leaking "fuel". I don't know what it is... Radar Liquid Coolant? Hydraulic Fluid? Who knows... Oh yeah, and just because you have a nuclear reactor doesn't mean its used directly for propulsion. Power consumption on one of those things has to be unimaginable for all the electrical systems. Seperate turbine engines in each leg wouldn't be too far off, which would esplain the intakes.

[Lynk Former]

@ Kim: Kakizaki, not Ben... this is Macross not Robotech... And for the record, it has been stated many times that the Valkyries thrust is powered by their Reaction engines, and as stated in my other post, "reaction" being the name given to the overtechnology variation of nuclear powered technology.

But yeah, the Valkyries do have chemical fuel tanks as well as being nuclear powered, from what I've read it's used for atmospheric boosters.

EDIT: If you read up on the VF-0's it'll say that they used conventional jet engines because the reaction engine production was delayed. They even say this specifically in script in Macross Zero.

[Kiai]

I'm still having problems comprehending this, especially since i've worked on the real thing. Some of these ideas are just out of this world insane, but I guess anime physics have been discussed so I'll stop posting in this thread now. *Knows she's out of her league.*

[Lynk Former]

XD Well that's what I've been trying to explain to everyone for all this time. You're not gonna get any real sense out of any of this in the first place. They're only BASED on real world stuff, they're not following it to the letter of reality, just as much as is needed to make a story work and be believable on the surface.

[Maverick]

If I ever make my own Valkyrie it won't have air intakes

Good description Mav, except you left out one very important thing about the sub... the fact that its in the water..

I always miss the small tiny details..

[Lynk Former]

@ Mav: Bah! @ your air intake-less Valkyrie. It's an abomination!

[Maverick]

It's an abomination!

perfect!


it would have reverse thrusters though, so it won't be much different anyway.

[Analog]

I'm still having problems comprehending this, especially since i've worked on the real thing. Some of these ideas are just out of this world insane, but I guess anime physics have been discussed so I'll stop posting in this thread now. *Knows she's out of her league.*

That's why you need an...

ANIME ENGINEER

... and a little bit of

[Lynk Former]

That's why you need an...

ANIME ENGINEER

... and a little bit of

...all for the




Oh and here:








AAAAAAAND!

WARNING: YOU WILL CUM WHEN YOU SEE THESE PICS
http://www.famitsu.com/anime/news/1212399_1558.html

[Kiai]

Macross Frontier... Is that blue haired pony tale person a man or woman?

[Lynk Former]

Macross Frontier... Is that blue haired pony tale person a man or woman?

It's your standard androgynous anime thing... you can never tell.

[Stormfalcon]

I think the blue haired character's name is Saotome Alto. I'm not sure if the name itself is masculine or feminine. But, somehow, I get the feeling that the character will most likely be a male.

[Lynk Former]

Definitely male since you're obviously going to have some kind of love triangle being worked into the series... and while I wouldn't care if it was a lesbian love triangle, you know it's not gonna go that way.

According to the translation of the Famitsu page, it's going to mimic the love triangle between Hikaru, Minmay and Misa in SDF Macross... in a way XD And the guy happens to be extremely feminine for a reason... apparantly.

I have to say, I'm not liking the character designs at all, they seem so generic. The design of the VF-25 is awesome though...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com.au/encyc...hp?id=8586
http://www.macrossf.com/
http://www.mbs.jp/macross-f/

[Stormfalcon]

If he's going to be feminine, I certainly hope he isn't emo like Shinji Ikari.

[Lynk Former]

Shinji is feminine?... *looks around* since when? He's 14 so he's still got his boyishness. Plus, Shinji isn't emo XD he isn't even close.

[Stormfalcon]

He's still got his boyishness?

When Toji beats him up in ep. 3, I think, Shinji doesn't fight back. You'll have to pardon me for saying this, but that doesn't seem very boyish to me.

[Lynk Former]

Okay, first off, I was talking about his boyish looks. Secondly, the reason Shinji didn't fight back is a lot more complex and relating to his state of (or lack of, rather) self worth. Thirdly, before this heads into an area where the females of this forum come in here and be entirely not impressed with the way I think this conversation is going...

I'll say this: Just because Shinji didn't fight back didn't make him less of a boy or man or male... what it looks like you're suggesting is because he doesn't show aggression, etc, he must be girlish, as if it's a weakness of some sort. Now I'm not saying that that's exactly what you're saying... I'm just saying that to me, it looks like you're saying that.

And for the record, there have been times when people have tried to take me on but I haven't fought back. I could have and I could've beaten the pulp out of them, but the truth is, I really do try not to be violent. I guess that makes me less of a male, eh.

[Stormfalcon]

The second paragraph was along the line of what I was thinking (the part where you mentioned being girlish by not showing aggression).

Eh, you're right. After reading your third paragraph, I'm thinking that (mind you, I haven't seen evangelion for years) one possible reason that Shinji didn't fight back was most likely because he didn't want to get violent with Toji, even though he was being beaten.

[Lynk Former]

Actually, it has more to do with what I said in the first paragraph about Shinji's lack of self-worth.

Also, I think you should be mindful that aggression isn't a male thing... you'll realise that when Kim or Blue find your post in here and decide they to want to beat the shit out of you to show you that females are just as capable at doing it as males are...

Now let's get back to talking about Macross.

http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20...an2008.JPG
http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20...an2008.JPG
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4747/06hp4.jpg
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/32753/2...407_rs.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/807/vf25copyuy7.jpg
http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DYRL/vf-25.JPG



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jTh2skI9IPU

[Stormfalcon]

Agreed.

If they're offended, which they probably will be, I'll let them beat the fuck out of me because I deserve it.

Edit: But don't think, for a minute, that I wanted to offend them.
I didn't.

Back to Macross...

In Macross Zero, one of my favorite moments was when Roy Focker confronted Ivanov for the first time in the series. I live for that matrix style slow-down sequence!

[Analog]

Nice suspenders

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4747/06hp4.jpg

[Lynk Former]

nice underboobs

[Lynk Former]

I've just watched the first episode of Macross Frontier... here are my impressions of it.

I don't want to go into too many spoilers so I'm going to be vague about this... but I will talk about the spoilers at the end of the post.

Animation

The animation is great in some places, crap in others... what I mean by that is that in some parts the kinds of techniques they used were out of place and really shouldn't have been used. You know what they say "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"... it applies here too.

The scenes inside Macross Frontier's city were great simply because they weren't in space. The 3D and 2D elements blended in well and aside from the really generic character designs, it was pretty damn good. However, the main problem comes from the scenes in space. While the character models for the variable fighters and the colony ships are great, there are a lot of elements which seemed to not seem right. I think while you do get a lot of dynamic movement from the space battles, the animation quality is extremely low compared to the standards of other animes using 3d for this kind of thing. The main reason for the problems is because they're in space though...

Does the 3d and 2d animation blend well together? Sometimes it does... other times it doesn't. You can tell when it does and doesn't very easily... at least I could... and the times it didn't weren't that bad, but I still thought "bleah, wish they didn't do it like that".

Oh and there is quite a bit of that generic anime cutseyness in MacrossF... it's not over the top like big angry marks on peoples faces and super deformed moments... it's more along the lines of.... well it's kind of hard to explain... but it's the most unrealistic character animations I've seen for a Macross series yet. As cute as it is, I do not approve.


Characters

Like I said before, the character design is pretty generic, but you can forgive that pretty easily once you see the characters in motion... though I am getting tired of seeing the kind of characters that are being portrayed in MacrossF since they're basically in EVERY OTHER anime out there...

We're introduced to quite a few characters in the first episode, and while they do seem generic at first, I'm sure they'll find their footing soon and we'll get some nice interaction out of them. Either way, I can't tell you much from the first episode since it's all just introductions into the characters, but I am noticing some nice quirks with them that will be fun to see played with in the next 25 episodes.

Mecha

I have to say, before I go on... what happened to the UN SPACY? They used to be so cool... who the hell are these guys supposed to be? *sighs*

Anyway, we did get to see some VF-17's in action along side our hero fighter, the VF-25... I can't say much without spoiling it for you, but guess which one got their asses kicked and which one put up a good enough fight. We also got to see the FAST Packs for the VF-25's in this episode. Can't say much other than that without giving away spoilers, but all in all, you don't see that much action with the variable fighters that you can really talk about.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l...ontier.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l...ghters.jpg

Music
If you liked the music in Macross Plus, you'll like what Yoko Kanno has done in Macross Frontier. That's all I really have to say about that cause it really does sound like a reprise of what Kanno did in Plus. Oh and also... I love the version of "Do You Remember Love?" that's played in the end credits. Very nice.

Story
It's the first episode, so I can't say much. But so far, for an introductory episode, it's pretty good. You've met the lead and support characters, you're given a brief synopsis of the events of SDF Macross and the reason why humanity is spreading itself throughout the galaxy, and then you're with the Macross Frontier fleet which has travelled the furthest compared to all other fleets.

At the beginning of the episode it's just another day, aside from the fact that a pop idol is coming to Macross Frontier, and by the end, it's a full on battle with the Frontier suddenly being attacked by an alien force.

Actually, the way the episode was set out... it reminded me of SDF Macross. They had their "this is what happened in the years before present day" bit... then they had their normal "everyday life where a significant event is taking place" and then their "invasion by an alien force" moment and then at the end the hero who is your normal average boy finally springs into action and gets pulled into the fight. Classic Macross.... well, not literally down to the wire classic Macross... but close enough.

I'm liking it so far, it's a great first episode simply because it reminds me so much of the original series.


Spoilerific

XD And now here are some spoiler moments I want to talk about.

I didn't appreciate how in the introduction, they used the DYRL? animation designs to represent the Zentradi. The Zentradi aren't monsters and Britai definately isn't a monster so I am pretty offended that they represented him that way in that one shot. I mean come on! Britai was such a champ and it sucks how he, Hikaru, Misa and Minmay all went missing along with the Megaroad-01 fleet. Have some fucking respect you bastards!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l...ontier.jpg

But that does disturb me, because again the creators seem to be taking the events of DYRL? as canon and the TV series as... nothing.

They also showed the launch of SDF-2 Megaroad-01

Also, it's told that Megaroad-01 travelled towards the center of the galaxy... but in the graphical representation of the Macross fleets spreading out from Earth, it's shown that Megaroad-01 travelled to the outer edge of the galaxy instead and Macross Frontier's fleet travelling in towards the center of the galaxy... this confuses me and diminishes hope that Macross Frontier will discover what happened to the SDF-2, Hikaru, Misa, Minmay, Britai and the others.

EDIT: Hmmmmm as I look at the path of the Megaroad-01... it seems that the Megaroad-01 looped back around and then... well... I don't know... you lose track of it as the camera zooms in towards Macross Frontier... but I find it difficult to believe that the Megaroad-01 fleet could be tracked for that long considering that the UN SPACY lost contact with them shortly after they left...

In the graphic, you can also see where the Macross 7 fleet went in relation to Macross Frontier and Megaroad-01 and also Megaroad-04 which settled on Eden (the planet from Macross Plus).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l..._earth.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l...h_eden.jpg

It's also funny to hear Japanese and English being spoken in MacrossF... kinda like what they did in DYRL? to try to signify the fact that there is multiculturalism and everyone isn't Japanese... though in the end since pretty much everyone is white and looks the same, they didn't do a very good job of it.

I love the bit where the guys are making planes with their hands just like Isamu... and the attack during the concert reminded me of the moment in the TV series when there was a Zentradi attack during one of Minmay's concerts.

Oh, and the holographics seen in the show have a striking resemblence to the holographic designs used in the original TV series.

Ranka is cute, Sheryl seems like your average arrogant pop idol, Alto seems like a good hero character... and the others tease him about looking feminine which is pretty funny.

Sheryl is quite different as far as the other Macross pop idols go, the first time you see her sing she's got quite the outfit on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/l...outfit.jpg

Ozma (or Ozuma) seems like a Roy Focker wannabe.

Mikhail is so this series' Max lol.

The restaurant Ranka works in is called "Nyan Nyan" lol

Oh and also... Sheryl Nome... as in Sara and Mao Nome from Macross Zero?...

Love seeing the vending machine and cleaning bots working around the streets... as soon as I saw them my thoughts went straight back to the original TV series.

While you do get a few good shots of the Frontier fleet and can see some Zentradi ships among them... so far, I haven't seen any Zentradi in the series and no one has been named a Zentradi yet... which is disappointing... but I'm hoping we'll get to meet some later on in the series.

EDIT: Ah, I spot some Zentradi insignia's.... woot

When the aliens do attack and make their way into the city, it almost feels like Evangelion/RahXephon for a moment lol. But there is a moment at the end of the episode which I absolutely LOVE! It's CLASSIC SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS. Those who have seen SDF Macross and watch the last part of the first episode will know exactly what I mean. I loved that part.

Also, it's pretty funny how the VF-17's get their asses kicked completely as well as how they also have X-9 Ghost's which in Macross Plus was the automated fighter that Guld fought and defeated... a squadron of those got their asses kicked too XD In the end the VF-25's were the only ones to really hold their own.

Tanks? What happened to the Destroids?

Oh, and did anyone else think that the aliens seemed to look like Kadun's?... it kinda gets me thinking...

Oh and a small note... the aliens are a lot bigger than the VF-25s when they fight hand to hand... and also, while the subbed version I saw was really bad, the subbers obviously weren't familiar with Macross at all, one of the characters did refer to a VF-25 as a "Valkyrie"... could this mean that the VF-25's are "Valkyrie II's" ? lol

I don't know what's going on with the timeline, but like I said earlier, it seems like they're using DYRL? as canon rather than SDFM which disturbs me... The sub I saw was pretty bad, but even so, it does seem like Earth was abandoned after the events of DYRL? instead of rebuilt like in SDFM... I find this all very strange considering that Shoji Kawamori has said that the events of DYRL? is a movie made in 2017 about the events of Space War 1... a romantic dramatisation and nothing more... bleah, it's all so confusing.

Another thing that worries me is that I don't see a UN SPACY insignia anywhere... which leads me to believe that they're possibly trying to work around all that legal crap Macross has gone through and possibly try for a release outside of Japan with this series... but then I am seeing a Zentradi insignia in Frontier so why the hell not a UN SPACY insignia?


Overall

This is a good start to Macross Frontier, can't wait to see more and I hope it continues on along the lines of SDF Macross and Macross Plus. I'm hoping for big things and while I'm optimistic, I also know that the floor can fall out from under me with this just as easily since Macross is always so hit and miss.

[Analog]

From your post, it sounds promising so far Lynk.

The only question I have is... how the heck did you get to see the first episode already???

[Kiai]

Ahh the wide and expansive universe of the internet. We love thee!

Macross frontier is definitely shaping up to be a title I want to see.

[Maverick]

funny how the links still show with the spoiler tag

[Lynk Former]

After watching the episode for a second time I think the plot has become pretty obvious...

It seems that high ranking officials of the Frontier fleet are aware of this alien force that attacked in the first episode... I'm assuming it's because of the events of Macross Zero. The aliens have the same markings found on the rocks on the Mayan island that Sara and Mao Nome are from.

The President of the Frontier colony and his associates were expecting the attack and the SMS forces received a code Victor 3 from the President's office... so this really is a long time coming. At the end of Macross Zero we saw Sara ascend along with Shin... many believed that they travelled to where the remaining Protoculture are somewhere near the galaxies core.... the same area which the Frontier fleet is heading towards now... and to the same area that the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 was said to be heading before it disappeared in 2016...

It's also no small coincidence that Sheryl Nome had just arrived at the Frontier fleet from the Galaxy fleet which is nearby. When Sheryl arrived she was met by a military official (who bears a striking resemblance to Misa Hayase). I also noticed that Sheryl has a birthmark on her leg which will obviously play as another plot device.

I also remember the fact that the voice actor for Ranka Lee was chosen as this series new idol... and while Ranka isn't currently a pop idol in Frontier, she aspires to be and I'm sure will become one as the series progresses. I mention this because when one of the aliens penetrated the colony, Ranka found herself about to be attacked by one of the aliens... though I'm not sure if the alien wanted to kill her or simply capture her. The point is, Sheryl and Ranka both share an importance to the aliens for the same reason: They both have special abilities which revolve around singing.

So who or what are these aliens? Protoculture? Protodeviln?... I'm leaning towards the Protoculture side of things since the markings on the aliens resemble the markings found in Macross Zero. I'm thinking that the events which started in Zero are going to come to some sort of climax and resolution in Frontier.

EDIT: Oh wow, the preview of episode 2 shows us that there's gonna be a "Zero-G Love" moment... Macross fans as dedicated as me will know what I mean by that XD

[Stormfalcon]

HELL FUCKING YEAH!!!!

Macross Frontier Episode 1

Watch it before Youtube takes it down.

[Lynk Former]

I've got 3 different fansub group versions of the episode as well as the 720p HD raw lol.

[Stormfalcon]

Damn, Youtube took it down.

Eh, at least I got to see it. XD

[Maverick]

is Alto a normal japanese name? just wondering because it means 'high' or 'tall' in Spanish. It also means 'stop' though.

[Lynk Former]

Well Macross has never really been all Japanese. We've had character names such as "Roy Focker" and "Maximilian Jenius"... a lot of names in Macross do have a hidden meaning, so it wouldn't surprise me if "Alto" was chosen for the very reasons you mentioned.

In the first episode, Alto reminded me of Hikaru in his cynical phase in SDF Macross...

EDIT: MUST READ THIS EDIT AND CLICK LINK Oh... you guys really need to hear the new version of Ai, Oboete Imasu Ka (Do You Remember Love?), the ending song for Macross Frontier... it's so damn good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo7-eTTaw0I

And just so you know, the song is sung by Megumi Nakajima who plays Ranka Lee in Macross Frontier and was the new pop singer chosen specifically for the series... the same way that Minmay came into being...

And for us diehard Macross fans... you know the end of the song where you hear the words "mou hitoribotchi ja nai, anata ga iru kara" being sung?... That's Mari Iijima singing that, the voice of Lynn Minmay. Yes, how FUCKING AWESOME IS THAT! It makes me all misty and brings a tear to my eye... I can't wait to get my hands on the full version of the song, godamn! And then let's not forget the fact that Yoko Kanno is also involved... the awesomeness of it all is just too much for me!

Megumi Nakajima (Ranka Lee) and Mari Iijima (Lynn Minmay)

Even if Macross Frontier ends up being the crappiest Macross series so far... it'll still be worth it just for this one song.

(I don't know why, but Mari makes me melt...)

[Analog]

Very sweet Lynk. That song has brought tears to my eyes before... its that powerful.

I'm off to see if I can get that version of the song somewhere now. XD

[Prime]

Just downloading the first ep now. Missed all this over Christmas. Time to get caught up!!

[Chimasterwang]

So Lynk likes Macross eh?

[Stormfalcon]

Uh, YA THINK!!??