[spinkle]

I've been thinking about this a lot, spurred by the release of Grand Theft Auto IV and the subsequent slew of perfect reviews the game has garnered in its wake. I've never wanted an XBOX 360 nor a PS3, yet hearing about a game that is supposedly *this good* is making me wonder about what I'm missing.

The question is: Can a game really be so good that is worth the purchase price of a console during its current generation?

I strongly dislike both Microsoft and Sony; I see them as being opportunists that displaced the traditional Japanese gaming companies I grew up with and left only Nintendo from the original generation. In this sense, it's not so much that I'm a Nintendo fanboy (although I am; that's just not the relevant point here), it's more that I dislike their competitors enough to be unwilling to support them financially.

However.

Though I hate the parent company that produced it, I can't reasonably deny that the PS2 is a great platform. I see it in a way as being the Sega Genesis of its generation: tons of games, some great ones, mostly just good ones, but a library so vast and varied that it's most certainly worth it's current bottom-of-the-barrel price tag. (I was actually torn momentarily between spending that money on a DS or a PS2. The DS won, to my credit ) The PS3, however, at both its initial and current price points, is an obviously overrated system with an excruciatingly limited library with disgustingly high price tags. The reasoning behind both of these things seems relatively clear to me: keep the PS2 around and very cheap, because they will continue to sell to gamers like me who have yet to purchase one, and keep the PS3 at a premium price for hardcore gamers who are desperate for the newest/fastest/best/most powerful machine despite the pricetag or any other limitations. It's an extremely prudent move and pretty much standard operating procedure for Sony--see the PSX for more details.

IMO, the XBOX 360 is the PS2 of its own generation; most games that see release on other platforms also get ported to the 360 (including PC games, since in a way it's simply a gaming PC in its own box) and its pricing is competitive enough to make it far more attractive than the PS3, at least currently.

Then there's Wii. The tiny, nothing-fancy Wii that doesn't really do anything but play games (I still haven't beaten that damned News Channel yet) with an affordable pricetag, innovative control schemes, and hopefully a bright future. Nintendo is breaking a lot of rules here--if they'd charged even $25USD their profits would have been even further through the roof. But their goal was to get as many consoles in the hands of people as possible (even if the supply chain management has proven mostly faulty--I question whether that was intentional or not). Note that I said "people" and not "gamers." It's already proven its ability to host legendary titles in a whole new way, but more important its simplicity and elegance draw a lot of people to games and gaming who never would have touched a controller otherwise.

Let's valuate entertainment expenses. Let's say that we prorate all forms of entertainment by dollars-per-hour (USD, sorry). A $20 DVD with a two-hour movie clocks in at $10 per hour. If you include the special features, the cost could drop a little bit. Going to the movies costs about the same. A CD can cost up to $18 with only as much as 77 minutes of entertainment--an expensive proposition. Sporting events are ridiculously expensive--a night at the baseball park here costs at least $28 per ticket, which doesn't include parking, food, or drinks--and it's $7 for a beer, $4 for a soda and $5 for a hot dog. Not a cheap meal.

Games? I spent $44 on Metroid Prime 3. I played it for well over 50 hours. Super Mario Galaxy? $49, 75 hours. No More Heroes? $44, so far around 60 hours. Within a month of owning my Wii, using the figure of $1 per hour of entertainment as my guideline, I got my money's worth out of it...it's amazing how quickly 250 hours of gaming can rack up. If you jack up the figure, it took even less time. (I've now owned my Wii for 9 months and I cannot begin to count all the accumulated playing time) Final Fantasy III DS? $40, over 250 hours. (haha, yes, I know I'm crazy) In this context, video games are a hell of a bargain. Granted, DVDs and CDs do have a great deal of "replay value," but there is only so much "real" value to music and movies--they're passive entertainment that is easily supplanted by other media of the same type, and chances are if you watched your brand new DVD today it won't find it's way back into your player for weeks or even months, whereas after finishing a game it's not at all uncommon to start the whole thing over for the pure joy of replaying it.

In the context of this discussion, then, can Grand Theft Auto IV really be worth $350+$60?

[Sorry this was long and rambling; I hope it is at least somewhat coherent and can spawn some real discussion for Lynk's sake ]

[Lynk Former]

I've been thinking about this a lot, spurred by the release of Grand Theft Auto IV and the subsequent slew of perfect reviews the game has garnered in its wake. I've never wanted an XBOX 360 nor a PS3, yet hearing about a game that is supposedly *this good* is making me wonder about what I'm missing.

I think if you do stick with a single console, you really are missing out on a good variety of games out there which are worth playing. I've never had to buy a Sega, Sony or Microsoft console in my time because my friends would have them and we'd just play each others consoles and hire games.

As for GTA4 itself and gaming reviews. I really think that the review system for videogames is broken so I don't care what score is given to a game in any review, in fact, I ignore it. I don't even care if Ocarina of Time has gotten perfect scores because a lot about that game is flawed, even back in its time when it was the hottest thing around.

From what I've been reading about GTA4... at least, from what I've been reading from between the lines about GTA4. It is very much worth buying, it's a game that delivers in terms of pushing the realism factor in a videogame and allowing people feel like they're really in New York... Liberty City, whatever One of the best things about the game are the online modes which are great and very well done from what I've seen. However, what you are getting other than some brilliant additions, is more of the same which you got from Vice City and San Andreas... and before anyone starts calling me a biased Nintendo fanboy. I feel the same way about Twilight Princess, it's just the second coming of Ocarina of Time. Both games have new and brilliant features that weren't there before, but both games are still the same old thing we've known before for the last... for a long time.

But that's the point isn't it. If GTA's formula were to change too much then it'd lose a lot of its brilliance, the same applies for the formula of current Zelda games before Phantom Hourglass. You can't simply add something into a successful franchise like this until you can PROVE it works in other games... and if you notice, all of the new elements that makes GTA4 fucking wow has already been field tested in other games.

The question is: Can a game really be so good that is worth the purchase price of a console during its current generation?

Yes. Many people bought a Wii just because it had Wii Sports in it, and many people have bought a Wii just because it has Wii Fit on it. Same applies for Halo 2 for the Xbox in the last generation and Halo 3 for the 360 for this generation... also, the same thing is going to happen for Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3 and Monster Hunter 3 for Wii. One of the most successful games to make people buy a system was Nintendogs. Millions of people around bought a DS just for that one game... and let's not forget Super Smash Bros. Brawl...

I strongly dislike both Microsoft and Sony; I see them as being opportunists that displaced the traditional Japanese gaming companies I grew up with and left only Nintendo from the original generation. In this sense, it's not so much that I'm a Nintendo fanboy (although I am; that's just not the relevant point here), it's more that I dislike their competitors enough to be unwilling to support them financially.

I dunno, I don't like Sony and Microsoft as companies either, but I think Microsoft has done a good job at evening the field by allowing non-Japanese developers to get their games out there. As much as I love Japanese made games, we can't have the industry ruled by them. Also, Sony and Microsoft have both played an important part in gaming since they joined the ranks...

Microsoft created and perfected the first stable and well thought out online network for a videogame console and for the first time we got REAL online gaming on a videogame console. All of the attempts before it were by Nintendo who only tried to dip their toes in but who never embraced the concept... and still don't to be perfectly honest.

Sony introduced something very interesting... but what makes it even better is that those who call themselves "hardcore gamers" choose to blame Nintendo for this! Sony were the ones who expanded the market and introduced the field of gamers we call casual gamers... AND they were the ones who laid the foundation for non-gamers to play videogames. It's amazing how many people try to credit and discredit Nintendo for expanding the market in this way when it was Sony all along!! LOL

However.

Though I hate the parent company that produced it, I can't reasonably deny that the PS2 is a great platform. I see it in a way as being the Sega Genesis of its generation: tons of games, some great ones, mostly just good ones, but a library so vast and varied that it's most certainly worth it's current bottom-of-the-barrel price tag. (I was actually torn momentarily between spending that money on a DS or a PS2. The DS won, to my credit ) The PS3, however, at both its initial and current price points, is an obviously overrated system with an excruciatingly limited library with disgustingly high price tags. The reasoning behind both of these things seems relatively clear to me: keep the PS2 around and very cheap, because they will continue to sell to gamers like me who have yet to purchase one, and keep the PS3 at a premium price for hardcore gamers who are desperate for the newest/fastest/best/most powerful machine despite the pricetag or any other limitations. It's an extremely prudent move and pretty much standard operating procedure for Sony--see the PSX for more details.

I agree that it's a very smart move by Sony. If you look at weekly hardware and software sales, you'll find that while Nintendo is leading in all regions thanks to the huge success of the Wii and DS, Sony is in a comfortable second because it has the combined efforts of the PS3, PS2 and PSP. Microsoft on the other hand just has the Xbox360, not only that but 360 sales in terms of hardware and software are slowing down compared to a rise in the people buying PS3 hardware and software...

IMO, the XBOX 360 is the PS2 of its own generation; most games that see release on other platforms also get ported to the 360 (including PC games, since in a way it's simply a gaming PC in its own box) and its pricing is competitive enough to make it far more attractive than the PS3, at least currently.

As I said before, there's been a trend that I've noticed where the 360 is slowing down and the PS3 is speeding up. I think by the end of this generation, the PS3 will come out on top of the 360. Also, from what I hear, more people bought GTA4 on the PS3 than they did on the 360... a sign of things to come?

Then there's Wii. The tiny, nothing-fancy Wii that doesn't really do anything but play games (I still haven't beaten that damned News Channel yet) with an affordable pricetag, innovative control schemes, and hopefully a bright future. Nintendo is breaking a lot of rules here--if they'd charged even $25USD their profits would have been even further through the roof. But their goal was to get as many consoles in the hands of people as possible (even if the supply chain management has proven mostly faulty--I question whether that was intentional or not). Note that I said "people" and not "gamers." It's already proven its ability to host legendary titles in a whole new way, but more important its simplicity and elegance draw a lot of people to games and gaming who never would have touched a controller otherwise.

My firm belief is that Wii is taking off from where the infrastructure the PS2 built in the last generation.

Let's valuate entertainment expenses. Let's say that we prorate all forms of entertainment by dollars-per-hour (USD, sorry). A $20 DVD with a two-hour movie clocks in at $10 per hour. If you include the special features, the cost could drop a little bit. Going to the movies costs about the same. A CD can cost up to $18 with only as much as 77 minutes of entertainment--an expensive proposition. Sporting events are ridiculously expensive--a night at the baseball park here costs at least $28 per ticket, which doesn't include parking, food, or drinks--and it's $7 for a beer, $4 for a soda and $5 for a hot dog. Not a cheap meal.

Games? I spent $44 on Metroid Prime 3. I played it for well over 50 hours. Super Mario Galaxy? $49, 75 hours. No More Heroes? $44, so far around 60 hours. Within a month of owning my Wii, using the figure of $1 per hour of entertainment as my guideline, I got my money's worth out of it...it's amazing how quickly 250 hours of gaming can rack up. If you jack up the figure, it took even less time. (I've now owned my Wii for 9 months and I cannot begin to count all the accumulated playing time) Final Fantasy III DS? $40, over 250 hours. (haha, yes, I know I'm crazy) In this context, video games are a hell of a bargain. Granted, DVDs and CDs do have a great deal of "replay value," but there is only so much "real" value to music and movies--they're passive entertainment that is easily supplanted by other media of the same type, and chances are if you watched your brand new DVD today it won't find it's way back into your player for weeks or even months, whereas after finishing a game it's not at all uncommon to start the whole thing over for the pure joy of replaying it.

It kind of depends where you come from actually... down here in Australia a Wii game costs 100AUD, but some places you can get them for 75AUD, while PS3 and 360 games cost 110AUD ...with the current exchange rates, I think we pay almost twice as much for our games in Australia than folks in the US do. I can't remember how much DS games cost, I think around 50-70AUD each.

In the context of this discussion, then, can Grand Theft Auto IV really be worth $350+$60?

Ah... there's an extra cost you need to add onto that. Do you have a HDTV? If not, you'll have to add the cost of a good HDTV onto that pricetag. IMHO the PS3 and 360 aren't worth it if you're playing it on an SDTV. Also, it's also important to have a decent sound system for these consoles too... to really take advantage of it all, a HDMI ready HDTV and sound system is the only way to play these consoles to really get the full worth out of them. For me, it's a requirement.

[Sorry this was long and rambling; I hope it is at least somewhat coherent and can spawn some real discussion for Lynk's sake ]

XD Yay, now if only we could get OTHER people to take part *points @ everyone else*

[Pho3nix]

I actually made the decision to buy the PS3 next month because of GTA IV.

[Lynk Former]

MGS4 is my ultimate reason to buy a PS3... though before I do that I'll need a HDTV and sound system which are both HDMI ready.

[Moelman]

I bought my DS so I could play Pokemon

I think some games can be worth buying a console for, like Lynk said Halo 2 and 3 for Xbox and 360. I'll bet many people that have bought the Wii only have wii sports.

I personally wouldn't buy a console for GTAIV despite all the perfect scores, the series just does not interest me. But in general I think a 10/10 game is worth somehow playing, whether its borrowing from a friend or buying a new console for yourself.

[Eva]

I bought a Wii mainly because I wanted Fire Emblem: PoR. Even if a buy a console or handheld for a specific game, I do expect other games to my liking will be released in the future. At the moment, I purchase a PS3 for Disgaea 3, but expect more games to be released that I want for the system. I currently want X-Box 360 for Tales of Vesperia.

[kin37ik]

hmm, i dont know what other games i want for my 360, as i hardly ever use it anymore because of my awsome PC

[Chimasterwang]

Your PC sucks! Jking
I have a small list of games i would like to get if i got a Wii maybe XP
So its not just 1 game that would make me get a system XD

This is the list: XP
Ōkami (I saw it was coming to the Wii on Wikipedia and i think its gameplay/features might work better with Wii controls )
No More Heroes
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Zack & Wiki Quest for Barbaros' Treasure

[spinkle]

@lynk, i think you're right, PS3 will end up winning this generation. XBOX 360 has already crested and though its sales will likely remain relatively constant, as the price of the PS3 drops and its catalog increases, its sales will also climb drastically...I have the feeling another price cut will come by holiday time this year and that we'll be seeing huge amounts of sales to those who've been holding off getting one for some reason or another...especially gamers who bought the XBOX 360 just to kill time until they could afford the PS3 XD I agree that Microsoft's ability to keep American game studios active and in the running is a key move, and just as importantly I think they offer game studios a fair amount of middle ground in terms of development costs...Speaking in terms of studios being able to market and tailor their output, I think it's probably a good thing how "tiered" development is now--the market for games is wide open at this point, and there's a hell of a lot of improvement waiting to happen--I cite as a pleasant example how refined even NES games were by the end of its generation--and I think as a result this is going to be a nice, long generation with beautiful results. I'm opening up to the idea of getting into other consoles than Nintendo's, but I'm far too thrifty to drop three-digit numbers on anything, let alone something that will cause me to spend even more time gaming than I do now XD (for example, No More Heroes and Contact made me take days to reply to my own post )

@lynk and moel, I think you're right, Wii Sports probably does justify the Wii's existence for a lot of people and I can't deny that many families still don't own anything but that for the system and are completely satisified with their purchase. My extended family now owns three Wiis and a retarded amount of time has been spent bowling XD

@moel my DS reason was FF3DS, Pokemon was...imposed on me...by #echonet, haha. I'm glad as hell they got me playing it, though. I'm really glad I waited until Diamond to start exploring the franchise, though. (I should note that the DS is my first handheld; never had a gameboy, gba, gbc, etc)

@Eva, I've been wanting to check out the Fire Emblem games, as I've heard great things about them. Marth's inclusion in Brawl definitely stepped up the heat on it for me.

@chi I saw Okami in the game shop while hunting down a copy of Contact and almost impulse-purchased it, which is rare for me. It seems like it could be a lot of fun...as long as it doesn't turn out to be a grown-up version of Drawn To Life, haha XD Another RE4 recommendation too, I definitely have to pick that up.

On a side note, Super Mario Galaxy is probably the game that most justified the Wii for me, and the game I could most easily recommend to someone as worth the price of the Wii. I don't think I've ever had more fun that. Super Paper Mario was fun, but I think it's too much RPG for most people.

[Lynk Former]

XD Another RE4 recommendation too, I definitely have to pick that up.

If you don't do it soon... *gets knife* I'm gonna cut something of yours off...

[Tacx]

Hmmm can i get an emulator of that?

*looks around*

[Lynk Former]

What? Resident Evil 4? XD LOL!! There's a PC version of the game, but it's the most inferior version available... the best version to play is the Wii Edition... so damn good.

Here are some screens of the Wii version: http://forums.thecrisiscenter.net/showpo...stcount=14

[Chimasterwang]

Oh noes the continously scrolling page untill it finally loads all the images XD
Make image [hide] tags so we can click to expand images please! Maybe not

Best version of Resident Evil 4 is Wii Edition probibly XP It has all the extra content of the other versions and some more stuff/improvements i think, then it has the Wii's controls

@Spinkle: Okami is similer to Zelda in gameplay i think =P I just read this...

The gameplay style is a mix of action, platform, and puzzle gaming genres, and has been noted by many reviewers to have numerous similarities in overall gameplay style to The Legend of Zelda series, an inspiration that director Hideki Kamiya, a self-proclaimed Zelda-fan, has admitted has influenced his general game design.

Edit: I tried to use [url] tags in the quote so i could link to the article with the name at the top of the quote but it didnt work XD

[Lynk Former]

@ Chim:

Protip: If you're going to tell someone about a game... it's probably best if you've actually played it enough to really know what you're talking about.

[Tacx]

nuff said emulator is the best!
its cheap and and and its cheap and....

*still thinking*

[Lynk Former]

and it makes you cheap

[spinkle]

@tacx most of the games I play in emus I've already paid for in their original format, or they're currently unavailable so I'm taking the best of what I can get. I know I'm not the best one to speak in an accusatory tone about their use since I do have an unlawful anime downloading habit but c'mon Tacx, pony up. This thread is about getting your money's worth out of consoles, not evading the money...

[Chimasterwang]

=O
If i played it and you asked ME what i thought i might just say "It was alright XD" or something XD
But i can tell others about the content and controls without having to play right?

[Lynk Former]

Sure you can. You can also go on for hours about your view on a unified field theory but that doesn't mean you actually know anything about it XD

So tell me chim, what exactly are the improvements in RE4Wii and the content and how do the controls feel? I want to know the intricacies.

Also, can you elaborate on why Okami is like a Zelda game. Also, what other information do you know about Okami's gameplay on Wii and possibly any other information?

...without referring to any outside sources, I'd like to hear your own experiences of these two games.

XD Don't worry, I'm just being a jerk and messin with ya lol.

[Chimasterwang]

=O
Okami is like Zelda for this reason, all cans are containers therefore all containers are cans Jking/not realy XD

To talk about the possible improvements and changes in different versions of RE4 without using/seeing any other sources apart from my own i might have to play several versions D= XD I think you might have played more than 1 version but i dont know if you have played the PS2 version XD

[Lynk Former]

Yes, I have played all versions of RE4.