[Geass]

As if they have sudenly decided to grace the world with their pressence after Apple decided to try out DRM free music, Microsoft is now thinking of offering music to the their Zune service free of DRM (pfft, yeah right)

Article right here, really short though, should go find another one
http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6173307....&subj=news

And what in the world, a cremé pink coloured Zune?
http://news.com.com/2300-1041_3-6173301-...&subj=news

OK, Microsoft is showing its follow the leader or the "We thought of it first!" attitude when it see's something that Apple does. Another thing comes to mind on the DRM that is already built in to the Zune "Squirting" feature. The DRM on that is that you can send someone a song, and they can either listen to it within three days, or play it three times within those three days. then the song gets a restriciton lock on it untill you either pruchasea copy from the store or like most people, finda clever software download and keep playing it.

Frankly I don't think Microsoft can't really stay at all on their game, especially with their statements in how they retract almost every one of them, and how they think they are the last oppinion of everything technology based (and don't get me started on Monkey-Boy's thing on the iPhone and how google works as a buisness model)


Also though, consider this, Vista was so touted as über secure, when almost nearly three months later, and that is probably a record, a security flaw based on animated cursors of all things comes out and blows a hole. (is it possible to sue for false advertising on part of Microsoft?) Link here http://news.com.com/2100-1002_3-6173115....&subj=news

Oh wait, I found another article reguarding their false advertising http://news.com.com/2100-1024_3-6173262....&subj=news


Truthfully, if something like a flaw that was in windows since NT as a animated cursor exploit, then Vista isn't really new, its just something dolled up. More like its XP 1.5.

All in all, I still trust XP becasue it has established itself solid, even if it is buggy (heck, people even threatend to leave EVE online when they said they would switch to Vista, so they still run on good o'l XP)

[Scar da Kookee]

Hehehe! good stuff

I'd like to see a good online venue drop 30-50% due to a OS switch XD

[Flynt]

I'm no real computer expert by any means, but I have found from experience pretty much anything microsoft is gonna be f***ed up one way or another. I use XP which behaves mostly, the system ain't that bad, but I got rid of as many microsoft peripherals as possible. The programs are too big and buggy. IE and outlook were trashed, I use Firefox and Thunderbird instead, both are smaller, faster and more stable. Word is gone too, I use AbiWord, it has most the features at a third of the size and use third party media players as well, cause microsoft media player IMO is just plain useless.

Thing is, Microsoft is here to stay, all us poor PC users can do is tweak and play around with it, relpace the crap programs that come with it to suit our needs.

I wouldn't touch Vista with a 40 foot pole. Hell I was still using win98 til 2005, it worked well for me. I got XP when I upgraded my PC. You know, 'if it ain't broken dont fix it'. I think Vista is a waste of time, nothing really new in it, except for more bugs ><

[Chimasterwang]

Changed graphics and needs loads more resources XD
I saw a advert for a comp on tv the other day and i said "Thats not good enough to run Vista." out loud XD
The comp was AMD Sempron, 1GB Ram, 80GB HDD from what the people said on advert XD
Well most of your HD space gone strait away and then you got the ram thing, have you ever seen the system reqs for Vista XD
@Flynt: Use open office

[Geass]

I'm no real computer expert by any means, but I have found from experience pretty much anything microsoft is gonna be f***ed up one way or another. I use XP which behaves mostly, the system ain't that bad, but I got rid of as many microsoft peripherals as possible. The programs are too big and buggy. IE and outlook were trashed, I use Firefox and Thunderbird instead, both are smaller, faster and more stable. Word is gone too, I use AbiWord, it has most the features at a third of the size and use third party media players as well, cause microsoft media player IMO is just plain useless.

Thing is, Microsoft is here to stay, all us poor PC users can do is tweak and play around with it, relpace the crap programs that come with it to suit our needs.

I wouldn't touch Vista with a 40 foot pole. Hell I was still using win98 til 2005, it worked well for me. I got XP when I upgraded my PC. You know, 'if it ain't broken dont fix it'. I think Vista is a waste of time, nothing really new in it, except for more bugs ><

Im actually happy with my Mac, oh and they just released the Octet Core Mac Pro! (sooo sexy : P ) http://www.apple.com/macpro/


I can trust Microsoft on certain things, just like you would with XP, and frankly, I found Vista to be nothing more than a mess trying to pick it up from the start, even a trial version in a store, after I got used to remembering that closing the X button on the top of the window closes it, they go and move the thing! (for a Mac user, its on the left and it closes the window, not application)

[Scar da Kookee]

yeah, but on the left was like that since the PowerMac days. you know the 33/66 ones.

[Geass]

yeah, but on the left was like that since the PowerMac days. you know the 33/66 ones.

I had a 6500/250!

Yeah, the minimize maximise was on the right, and, wait I need to go check for myself....

[kyubichan]

I use XP, just because lots of games require it XD

Not switching to Vista, since it has been tested by my classmates, and the requirements are a bit too high <.<

[Scar da Kookee]

well at least it says on the box needs at least 800mhz cpu, 512mb ram, and a 9x capable video card...

BAH
and alot of people with at least twice to three times that much had problems getting a stable installation of vista.
XP works fine on my lappies, i dont need to upgrade any time soon.

[Sadipriss]

I find Windows Xp one of the better Windows versions available atm , Vista? like hell I will use it XP is good enough as it is now.

compared to Windows ME (yes I actually had it installed once..... the HORROR of that version yikes)
98SE was very stable compared to ME lol in that aspect :3

I got a couple of online buddies who tried Vista ....
they told me NOT to go get it.... Vista as it is now is waaaay too much trouble as it is now.... one actually compared it To Windows ME once lol
he barely installed it and Tadaaa!!! BSOD's all ove the place

[MadMax]

I am a Vista user.

Seems I'm the first person in this thread to say this. Looks like this is just another of those many Microsoft-bashing, Vista-trash-talking forum topics that have been around all over the net, but again nobody is commenting on Vista from their own experience (except Geass). But I'll do that now: In two and a half weeks I have explored and used Vista on my own computer since I got rid of XP and completely replaced it with Vista. I have the following basic specs:

Athlon 64 3000+
2 GB DDR-RAM
GeForce 6800 GT (AGP)
SoundBlaster X-Fi Platinum
280 GB total hard disk space

Vista was finished installing after 30 minutes and has been running fine ever since. I can work with it, lots of the stuff they changed is now easier to access than on XP, you don't have as much to configure after the first boot because MS actually streamlined the OS a bit. That's not to say that there aren't any leftovers you wouldn't turn off, but turning off things does hardly require registry edits or tweaking tools any longer; it can all be done from the Control Panel. Setting autorun commands, associating file types to programs, uninstalling software, configuring the sound card and user interface, it's all much more comfortable once you have seen how it works now. I cannot imagine how people could find that it's slower to work with Vista's user interface.

Now about performance and stability. I have the 64 bit version of Home Premium (the only sensible version you could get for money; Ultimate really is not a requirement unless you want all the Business features) and it has never crashed on me. 64 bits allows the system to run a few extra security algorithms that require the additional registers on the 64 bit CPU. Such security measures include hardware-operated file system protection, randomized boot-up system file access (i.e. it moves the system files to different memory addresses on each boot), and increased stability. Other than that, it won't really matter unless you run a 64 bit application, but games using 64 bits have been sparse so far. Drivers need to be fully 64 bit compliant and drivers are also the #1 cause of ALL gaming problems Vista users are facing. The OS is faster and more clever than you might think; it caches and indexes your files and programs to make them run faster depending on your work or gaming habits. RAM usage is also not such an issue if you have 1+ GB (Vista does use more RAM than XP, but it can also free up that RAM to provide it for games, or use a USB flash drive to cache files you don't access right now). When a game crashes or runs poorly, it really has to do with the Vista drivers (32 and 64 bit) that hardware manufacturers are offering so far. I'm running NVIDIA beta drivers since the last WHQL release performed sub-par on my system. They release new beta drivers about once in two weeks with visible improvements. My sound card is currently the only one supporting surround sound and EAX in games that use OpenAL, and drivers for it come much slower than NVIDIA's. It's a shame that the hardware companies still don't have finished drivers ready almost three months after Vista's launch (they had enough time during the beta tests to program drivers), but once drivers are stable and feature-complete, Vista will probably be a much more attractive gaming platform than you might think now. DirectX 10 games require Vista anyway, so there's nothing to discuss about that really, and Vista can use PCI Express and Dual Core CPUs more effectively than XP since it was written for these technologies. You can only update XP for so long; at some point an OS switch is necessary to keep up with technology.

Since Vista or my video drivers do seem to have a problem with my current motherboard, I'm actually upgrading it and the video card this week. I planned to do that along with the Vista switch, so it's all one transition process for me. If you plan not to upgrade your hardware in 2007 and you are on the lower end of Vista's system requirements, that's a perfect reason to stay with XP. But Vista is not bad at all, go ahead and TRY it before you believe the (negative) hype.

Desktop Screenshot

[Chimasterwang]

I like your hard drives names XD
"You can only update XP for so long; at some point an OS switch is necessary to keep up with technology."
I dont update XP i done a few manual when i reformatted and ive turned off Auto Updates. I dont even have SP2 but things work fine =P
You make Vista sound nicer XD

[Geass]

I am glad that MadMax actually put up a non-biased out from the wild Vista review, the problem is that I can't stand or even trust some of the Vista reviews out there, (from actual fanboys I know) becasue they have either a fresh computer or configured it after they bought Vista.

I like the fact that you had a computer that could take Vista without pruchase of a major upgrade or new system, all I am saying is that how it should have been in the first place, rather than having most users in the real world update their equipment and/or buy a new system.

The only thing I gripe about vista mainly is how unprepared they rest of industry was to be able to serve it in the means of drivers and such. I know some people recieved all that they needed but still had to replace many things. Why could have microsoft a least released the required specs before hand or at the least, let the industry reach up to compliances rather than leaving them water-logged. Things like software should work rightout of the box, with a periodic update to improve performance and security, not add major patchwork that it had while leaving the factory unfinished.

By the waythough, Vista can run perfectly on a Mac, without the need of any upgrading.

and Quick Update
Zune Phone? Who is going to carry it? http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9710424...47-1_3-0-5

[MadMax]

Things like software should work rightout of the box

I am directly quoting a news entry from CTRL+ALT+DEL about Vista in reponse:

So then people will say "But d00d, Microsoft should have tested the system themselves. Why do we have to pay to find bugs for them. Fucking Microsoft, releasing an unfinished product!", and that just smacks of ignorance. There are millions of combinations of computer hardware and software, and it's completely impossible to check all of them for compatibility within an in-house testing environment, or even within an open beta test like Microsoft ran last year.

The point is, our age-old ideas of "This just came out, I'm buying it the day it came out, it had better be flawless as soon as I take it out of the box" doesn't hold true for stuff like computer software anymore. It's not like we buy a toaster, and the toaster company knows that if you're plugging it in in the United States, you're using a 120v 60hz socket, and they can extensively test that toaster under those conditions.

I think he has a point there. Computers are so variable these days that the complex software we use cannot run like Win 3.1 did on traditional machines. I don't agree with the slow development of the drivers for Vista, but "little bugs" in a new OS will probably never be sorted out upon release; that's what updates are for.
Since you mentioned Macs, I know that MacOS "runs out of the box" without updates. But that's because Apple who programmed the OS is the same company that builds the computers the OS is running on. Microsoft on the other hand has to make Vista as compatible as possible for every little piece of hardware by every little manufacturer. Or rather, manufacturers should program working drivers so their hardware runs on Vista. Depends on how you look at it

[Geass]

True, yes, Mac runs out fo the box since the entire process of the software is closely integrated with the hardware, unlike a licenesed system that of microsoft in which requiremens are broad unlike niche workings for the Mac enviornment.

To add some turth to balance out my statement before if I cut my tounge on it, Macs run out of the box, yet they do not require extensive service pacakges of upgrades such as the Service Packs of Windows. They have their updates, but its not like you need them in order for your computer to connect to the internet.

Yes a closed envionrment system fosters quality control, similar to an open development enviornment provides feedback, wheras a licensed run around the farm package is limited to how much you put in to it. (Mac, open source development and Windows licensing, respectively)

I agree whole heartedly though on your last comment of compatibility and drivers, I jsut think there should be more colaboration is all. ^_^

[Maverick]

@Max: sorry buddy but we're going to strongly disagree on this

I did try Vista like Max said and see how it is by myself, but there's no demo (or I can't find it) and I won't bother looking for a crack, besides Microsoft says my PC isn't "Windows Vista Premium Ready" so there's no point in trying it. And I don't like Vista AT ALL, not because it may be buggy but for what it is, did you saw the new Aero interface for Vista? now look at Beryl 3D desktop for GNU/Linux here or here, it looks far better than Aero or Aero Glass, it's fully customizable, and you don't need a behemoth computer for run it, of course a GNU/Linux OS isn't something that will run "out of the box" but good part of the fault is for hardware manufacturers that doesn't fully support open source software.

But the thing that truly bothers me is their DRM policy, all data seems to go through encryption algorithms, crippling your PC's performance, not for protect your credit card numbers, your files or your privacy, but for protect media data and all that stuff that the RIAA and MPAA cares for, link
And why? did anyone of you people asked for a operating system that checks if your media content is legal or not? this isn't about fighting piracy, this is about how legitimate consumers gets a lot of crapload thanks to corporations trying to maximize their profit margin, what guarantees that all this isn't going to get cracked anyway? Every time that something gets encrypted or secured it gets cracked shortly. Do you guys remember Sony's rootkit? did it prevented illegal copies? no, but it screwed the computer of the honest buyer.

Did anyone once received a file through MSN from a friend, and got it deleted by Windows because it's "dangerous"?, without any confirmation dialog? my winXP thinks wav files are dangerous and deletes them without my input
Here Max sent me a file, vfunnyjess.wav and windows xp decided by itself and BY ITSELF to delete it, and I couldn't recover it, that's an example of what I'm talking about, Windows controls your computer, not you.

Normally I wouldn't give much importance to this, I switched to GNU/Linux some months ago, I've been online without any firewall, antivirus or ... how is it called?... ah, anti-spyware software, and I'm still running without any system crash or ads popping around, I'm using my desktop with true transparencies and it runs smoother than my windows xp, and I can run Half-Life thanks to Wine so all my essential needs are covered. Of course it has its downsides, getting my modem and video card to work wasn't easy, some apps have bugs, mp3 and divx doesn't work without some tweaking and still I can't get my sound card to work with multiple apps, but I'm totally bought by GNU/Linux, and I'm trying to push the "GNU/Linux and not Windows" matter to my bosses in my University, which uses cracked software for everything (Looks like my uni has license for crack software O.o)
anyway I was saying that I wouldn't give much importance to Vista but thanks to it open-source hardware support will be damn difficult and it piss me off

[Geass]

@Max: sorry buddy but we're going to strongly disagree on this

So long to quote.

OK, I have not actually tried and sort of Linux based OS, such as red hat or ubuntu, or even GNU.

I know open source is great but when I hear Linux users at my school push it like the Vegan guy next to me like animal cruelty, I go bonkers.

But if they aknowledge their own flaws, rather than play a GUI OS sycophant just because its open source, then I respect them. Its the same for me with Windows users, and even I as a Mac user acknowledge OS X isn't perfect but it dosent hiccup as often as a windows machine crahes.

[Maverick]

I don't like when people praise GNU/Linux like is the best thing in the world either, but I think you missed my point, I wasn't saying GNU/Linux is good or better, I was saying Vista sucks in the worst way posible

[Geass]

I don't like when people praise GNU/Linux like is the best thing in the world either, but I think you missed my point, I wasn't saying GNU/Linux is good or better, I was saying Vista sucks in the worst way posible

Your right, I think I glazed over your main argument, DX Sorry 'bout that

[MadMax]

Mav, your DRM points don't matter... look at what you linked us to; the text on the page says "when playing protected content" and that's exactly what Vista does; it encrypts and runs content through only a handful of devices if it is protected. MP3 files which I myself ripped from audio CDs or downloaded from somewhere are not protected because MP3 cannot use DRM. WMA files without DRM flags aren't protected either. DVDs usually aren't protected. "Protected media" in Vista's words usually is Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, the stuff that has the new protection algorithms on it. And when you play one of these, yes, Vista will encrypt them to prevent copying. I haven't found any downgrading of quality or had any problems playing a file I played on XP.
Vista doesn't encrypt all the files on my hard disk, and it also doesn't encrypt anything I download. For that I'd need to use BitLocker which I don't even have on Home Premium.

I switched to GNU/Linux some months ago, I've been online without any firewall, antivirus or ... how is it called?... ah, anti-spyware software, and I'm still running without any system crash or ads popping around, I'm using my desktop with true transparencies and it runs smoother than my windows xp, and I can run Half-Life thanks to Wine so all my essential needs are covered. Of course it has its downsides, getting my modem and video card to work wasn't easy, some apps have bugs, mp3 and divx doesn't work without some tweaking and still I can't get my sound card to work with multiple apps,

These problems are enough reason for many many users including me not to use Linux. Plus I bet you cannot play Half-Life 2 on it, which you so desired to play previously.

I don't know how extensively you actually tested Vista yourself (the DRM part obviously wasn't checked out by you), but let me tell you, Vista is getting more comfortable every day as I sort out the last minor glitches and I wouldn't want to go back to XP now. One thing I'm warning any upcoming Vista users of, because I experienced it myself: if you want to GAME on Vista, you NEED a fast processor, and it should be a dual-core! On XP, dual-core processors usually did more harm than good because XP didn't exactly know how to handle two cores, but Vista makes full use of multi-core CPUs and for intensive stuff like gaming, Vista practically requires lots of CPU resources. It might not seem that way when you look at your CPU meter, but I cannot play any DirectX 9 game fluently like I could on XP even after upgrading my mainboard and video card. Overclocking my CPU by 300 MHz already makes a difference (Athlon 64 3000+, from 1.8 GHz to 2.1 Ghz) and I can actually play everything, but at times when lots of objects come up onscreen, the games slow down. That's most probably related to DirectX 9 games being ran in a compatibility mode that actually wraps DX9 in DX10 (which is the native Vista DX). OpenGL games run fluent (tested with Prey).

I'm standing by my opinion; if you got the hardware, there's no reason not to enjoy the comfort of Vista; it's only a hassle if you need to upgrade first.